csspecs 1,987 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 A little background on these About a year or so ago I thought that it would be pretty cool to have some magazines for my .308 saiga, FBMG was sold out surefire was either not out or having teething problems. So I decided to take a shot at making a couple of my own, just about totally surprised me when they worked in the first couple trys. When I posted them on here a few people commented that I should make some for sale, of course the first few I made where really really rough and not something I would ever think of selling. Fast forward eight months or so, I get an email from a forum member asking if I ever made any for sale... Well not really, but hey I had been without work for a couple weeks and casting bullets was getting boring. So I went to work on it trying to make a clean easy to make magazine that would feed 20 rounds. And here I am today about 20+ prototypes and a couple thousand bucks later and I have a working design that feeds 20 rounds very well. I'm still not to the sales stage so don't jump my case about not being a business member. Details about the magazine Three USA made parts. Body, Follower, floor plate. Steel thickness Body, follower and floor plate are 22 GA steel Feed lips and rear locking tab are 16GA steel Spring used is half a 30 round AK spring probably switching to G3 magazine springs once I get a couple in to test. Inside of magazine is 2.95 Inch so it should take all normal .308 rounds and have room to spare. The Magazine is blued using a product called OXPHO-BLUE, I am very pleased with its durability takes a lot of time with a wire wheel to take off. And my test sheets are still rust free while the plain steel is pretty rusty (heck I'm thinking of using it to refinish my S-12) Questions Is a last round bolt hold open something you would want? I would probably change the follower to 16GA to take the beating the bolt will likely dish out. Do you want a peep hole for the 20th round so you can see when it's full? Is anyone interested in ten or five round steel magazines? Would a US made steel follower be something you would want for a replacement for the 8 round saiga mag? It could be made in either 5 or 10 round. Would US made floor plates for saiga 8 round mags be something anyone would want? Thanks for the help The four shiny spots on the feed lips are spot welds that have been ground a little, flash on my crappy camera caught it funny all 30 times so until I have some sunshine for better pictures thats what you get Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HarvKY 72 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Bravo I salute your ingenuity & fortitude on this project Cheers, HarvKY Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yellowcarbon 4 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Those are nice. If you price them close to the Surefire & FBMG, they will sell. I don't care for the last shot bolt hold open on the Surefire mags and don't think they are needed on your mag. The 20th round peep hole is good. When loaded lots of mags from bulk ammo, it is easy to loose count. The peep hole out help with that. I don't think a 5 or 10rd would sell as much as 20rd mags. Yes there is a market for it, but not nearly as much as for the metal 20rd mags. Yes, followers & floor plates for the factory mag would be good. You might also look into doing a 8rd conversion kit for the AGP Saiga-12 mags. I bet those would sell as well. Either way, great job. Mags are pretty tough to get running reliably. Make sure you test them in different guns to make sure they function. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greatmoose 4 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Awesome work. I'd definitely forgo the BHO, it's kind of a wasted feature on the AK, since it just slams shut when you remove the mag anyway. Wish the surefires didn't have it. Price these things competetively, and you'll sell a boatload. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oxyehho 8 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Questions Is a last round bolt hold open something you would want? I would probably change the follower to 16GA to take the beating the bolt will likely dish out. Do you want a peep hole for the 20th round so you can see when it's full? Is anyone interested in ten or five round steel magazines? Would a US made steel follower be something you would want for a replacement for the 8 round saiga mag? It could be made in either 5 or 10 round. Would US made floor plates for saiga 8 round mags be something anyone would want? 1. BHO - please don't make it - it's useless in a mag - u have to pull it out and bolt slams forward. 2. Big YES on the peep hole 3. Big YES for the 10-rounder - I am from NJ and there are plenty of other big anti-gun states where Saiga is the ONLY AK-type weapon allowed. This will opena huge market with lots of frustrated customers like me 4. Yes, everyone has factory 8-rounders and personally, I do not want to screw around with plastic parts to convert it to 10-rnder, so if u offer a drop in steel follower that makes into a 10-rnder - I will buy it. 5. Not sure if the mag floor plate is needed for the 8-rnder unless it's required for the 10-rnd conversion. In conclusion - thank you for doing this. I think there is a huge demand out there for steel mags for 308. A lot of S308 owners are from SHTF community and steel is the king for them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 American ingenuity in action! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK-47 33 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 very cool project csspecs! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cellsworth 21 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Nice! If you can price these competitively, you will sell quite a few. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Just an FYI in NJ the mag limit is 15. Best of luck to you in this endeavor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oxyehho 8 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Just an FYI in NJ the mag limit is 15. Best of luck to you in this endeavor. For domestic guns only though. 922r comes into play. PG conversion is illegal in NJ as well, so the whole conversion is out in this lovely state. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Outstanding work! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 OK, little delay on getting the test models out I finally found a shop that had .308 FMJ ammo to test it more with.. So after a little bit I found a couple extra small issues that will need to be addressed... My shoulder hurts and I have a big smile on my face. But they do work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 i want some Quote Link to post Share on other sites
731rogers1962 0 Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Outstanding!!! Would love to buy these when you make them available. I think that if you can work out all the bugs and keep the price reasonable, you would have to hire employees and make magazines full time. I'm highly interested in buying some. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Is that follower going to have a skirt to keep it from tilting on the finished product? I'll buy and test drive one when you get them to a production level because I'd prefer steel to plastic anyway. Good Luck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thereisnospoon 1 Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 I'll take 4 for testing and review, if they are the same price (or reasonably close) to the Surefire price. Especially if you can actually put 20 rounds in it and it still function. My surefires can only be loaded to 23 rounds for relaibe function and the FBMG about 17... I don't want or need the BHO. The peep hole would be great-one around the 10 round mark would be nice as well if it won't degrade the integrity of the body, feed or function. Steel followers for my other (4) mags would be great. My only hope is that you will actually able to produce these babies and get them to the marketplace without all the grief that usually accompanies a new high demand product such as this. I love America... Great project. Spoon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greatmoose 4 Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Oh yeah, if you need testers, I'm up for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Just an FYI in NJ the mag limit is 15. Best of luck to you in this endeavor. For domestic guns only though. 922r comes into play. PG conversion is illegal in NJ as well, so the whole conversion is out in this lovely state. PG conversion IS legal in NJ. There's a crapload of saiga rifle owners who've done it in NJ. If this mag makes it to market I'll be converting to give it a try. I might convert just to use the Surefire 15 rounders anyway. Perhaps you are thinking of the Saiga shotgun, which is NOT legal for PG conversion in NJ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AK308_in_AK99709 0 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Outstanding work!! I have a shop of my own where I do custom work...if you ever make it to Alaska...you know, to return to America when we secede from the Obam-i-nation...look me up. I'll give you shop space until you get on your feet. As far as the questions: Is a last round bolt hold open something you would want? I would probably change the follower to 16GA to take the beating the bolt will likely dish out. Personally, I like the BHO...as usual I am an exception...my bolt DOES NOT slam home when the mag is released. Do you want a peep hole for the 20th round so you can see when it's full? Yup!!! Is anyone interested in ten or five round steel magazines? No thanks. Would a US made steel follower be something you would want for a replacement for the 8 round saiga mag? It could be made in either 5 or 10 round. No Opinion Would US made floor plates for saiga 8 round mags be something anyone would want? I think I would purchase one. My Question: When can I order 5 of the 20 rounders? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I'll take 4 for testing and review, if they are the same price (or reasonably close) to the Surefire price. Actually, once he gets any bugs worked out of them, he should be able to charge more than the price of the plastic Surefire mags. Just sayin'.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted March 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 (edited) I think some people will hate you for saying that I'm really planing to keep them right near the price of the surefires. I hate when people charge the max the market will support, I just want to earn enough to pay myself ok for the hassle this will become. I won't be hurting surefires sales much if any. I know I can't do the volume they can. I have one issue worked out, now I'm playing with the floor plate it needs something to hold it on a little better. Probably using something like an AR Magazine Edited March 5, 2009 by csspecs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ruffian72 548 Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Glad to see project going forward. Would gladly purchase to show support. Forget bolt hold open, just slows reloads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted March 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 (edited) Ok update: I have the retainer for the floor plate done. Few other adjustments made: Made the back half of the magazine overlap the front half more to allow for a more positive spot weld. Started checking thickness of the steel before I bought, turns out that "22ga" from two metal yards was different stuff. One was .034 and the other was .022. I guess it may not be a big deal for others but I use the steel in strips to make the front step in the magazine so I can't have that. (that was about 20 hours and two bucket fulls of magazine bodies before it was caught) Went to a four sided follower (three sides and top) pretty much a AK copy. Also had to add a tab to the follower to prevent the bolt from snagging it on the last round. Made the front locking tab longer for a little extra strength Added a lip to the front of the bottom of the mag body to support the floor plate. My plan so far is to send off this one, once I get my feedback from it I will then make a set of 10 and send them off for a trial run, if that goes well then to go full out with it. I'd love to give everyone free magazines but I can't. Even the testers are not getting free magazines, just a little cheaper. So if you want to test them cool, I am doing a little pre test right now and then making a small run to be sure they work in most rifles. I'm really planing to keep these at around 40.00 or less plus shipping. I'm still looking for springs, what I have in the test magazines is half of a AK 30 round spring, it functions fine.. Just I am going to use up all my spares really quick. I can't find cheap dented G3 magazines right now thanks to obama, so I won't be using them I guess. The tens are going to be built as a byproduct of the 20s, every so often a spot weld gets messed up and ruins the mag body. So what I can do is cut the mag body and recover a portion of the body to make a smaller magazine. Thats the motivation behind it, just to use up the left overs. Edited March 7, 2009 by csspecs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreensboroNC 0 Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Thats very well done. I hope this works out and we can all enjoy metal magazines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 (edited) Ok update: I have the retainer for the floor plate done. Few other adjustments made: Made the back half of the magazine overlap the front half more to allow for a more positive spot weld. Started checking thickness of the steel before I bought, turns out that "22ga" from two metal yards was different stuff. One was .034 and the other was .022. I guess it may not be a big deal for others but I use the steel in strips to make the front step in the magazine so I can't have that. (that was about 20 hours and two bucket fulls of magazine bodies before it was caught) Went to a four sided follower (three sides and top) pretty much a AK copy. Also had to add a tab to the follower to prevent the bolt from snagging it on the last round. Made the front locking tab longer for a little extra strength Added a lip to the front of the bottom of the mag body to support the floor plate. My plan so far is to send off this one, once I get my feedback from it I will then make a set of 10 and send them off for a trial run, if that goes well then to go full out with it. I'd love to give everyone free magazines but I can't. Even the testers are not getting free magazines, just a little cheaper. So if you want to test them cool, I am doing a little pre test right now and then making a small run to be sure they work in most rifles. I'm really planing to keep these at around 40.00 or less plus shipping. I'm still looking for springs, what I have in the test magazines is half of a AK 30 round spring, it functions fine.. Just I am going to use up all my spares really quick. I can't find cheap dented G3 magazines right now thanks to obama, so I won't be using them I guess. The tens are going to be built as a byproduct of the 20s, every so often a spot weld gets messed up and ruins the mag body. So what I can do is cut the mag body and recover a portion of the body to make a smaller magazine. Thats the motivation behind it, just to use up the left overs. I want to test them and will be happy to either pay for the privilege or trade you some stuff you might want to look at for R&D(GI M14 mag and an FBMG 20rd mag a bunch of new Wolff M14 mag springs) I would also like to talk to you about making some conversion tabs and plates for turning M14 mags into Galil 308 mags in a fairly large quantity. PM me when you are ready Edited March 7, 2009 by SOPMOD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted March 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 (edited) Ok post range update. Barnaul Soft point had a lot of trouble feeding, my gun did not like it from the factory magazine only from my old 17s. So I can't say that I'm surprised. 147 grain FMJ ammo fed well, went through a couple mags with out a problem. I did switch out to a full size AK magazine spring in an effort to trouble shoot the soft point ammo, I'll probably use full length springs from now on seems like they may help a little. Checked a gun store near by and got to check the magazine in three rifles, seems that the new models have a feed ramp of sorts built in, or at least some sort of alteration in the barrel area.. I have NO idea what that will do. Edited March 7, 2009 by csspecs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin 37 Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Watching with great interest.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 OK I have the problems fixed with the soft point ammo.. Now it feeds fine. I'm still looking for a good source of .308 magazine springs, or non-rusted surplus G-3 magazines for less then 3.00 each. So if you know of one that would be great. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AK308_in_AK99709 0 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 OK I have the problems fixed with the soft point ammo.. Now it feeds fine. I'm still looking for a good source of .308 magazine springs, or non-rusted surplus G-3 magazines for less then 3.00 each. So if you know of one that would be great. Just for the sake of R & D, how many are you looking for initially? Guess long...it is always better to have them and not need them than to NEED them and NOT HAVE them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegadebuck 16 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Good job! Necessity is a mother! Great alternative for this nitch. Good luck! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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