What's the deal??

[Bizzarolibe 5]

[Bayoupiper 738]

I'll bet if you look hard enough, there are Black Panthers and muslim extremists are also covertly into gun rights.

 

And it isn't correct to call it a movement.

That implies that gun rights are not, well, a right!

[TR Young 175]

It is a sad fact that no matter what you have as an interest, other people with similar interests may turn out to be someone like your 'gun store' friend. I have found the same thing as you, and it really tweaks me that the white supremacists make the rest of us look bad.

[Bizzarolibe 5]

I'll bet if you look hard enough, there are Black Panthers and muslim extremists are also covertly into gun rights.

 

And it isn't correct to call it a movement.

That implies that gun rights are not, well, a right!

 

Ok...I fail to see how this makes white supremecy in the gun rights *movement* any less appalling (relevance?).

 

As a side-note, I think most people in their rights mind would agree with me when I say that the proportion of white supremecists who are involved in the GR movement is much greater than the proportion of ________ supremecists in the GR movement. If you disagree, I'd stronly encourage you to visit Stormfront.org.

[superA 289]

It's an impossible thing to do. The media will do whatever they need to demonize who they want. If that means trying to convince the entire country that everyone who has a gun is a racist then they will try and do that. If people are ignorant to believe that then what can we do about it? Any attempt to try a publicly distance normal gun owners will just send them searching for a story that they can spin to make it look like we are trying to hide something and if we are hiding something than it must be terrible. Like Will said, it's our right to own firearms, it's also their right to be KKK or whatever they want. A funny thing is happening in this country right now, the media is trying to convince everybody that firearms are unpopular and at the same time Americans are buying more than ever, it's only natural that they would try and associate this surge to a few "extreme" groups. Just live your life like you should and don't worry about the propaganda machine. It's not going away anytime soon and it's not like you can reason with it.

[superA 289]

I'll bet if you look hard enough, there are Black Panthers and muslim extremists are also covertly into gun rights.

 

And it isn't correct to call it a movement.

That implies that gun rights are not, well, a right!

 

Ok...I fail to see how this makes white supremecy in the gun rights *movement* any less appalling (relevance?).

 

As a side-note, I think most people in their rights mind would agree with me when I say that the proportion of white supremecists who are involved in the GR movement is much greater than the proportion of ________ supremecists in the GR movement. If you disagree, I'd stronly encourage you to visit Stormfront.org.

 

 

 

What other races in this country have such supremacist groups? I have a feeling that any group that has similar thoughts about one race or another is pretty heavy into the gun culture, they probably are just not as open and vocal about it as they probably are not equating America and the rights we hold in this Country with the agenda of their association.

[elvis christ 451]

There are a good number of people who actively rally against White Supremacist/Christian Identity involvement in right wing political happenings. Check out this guy's blog: http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/

[Bizzarolibe 5]

It's an impossible thing to do. The media will do whatever they need to demonize who they want. If that means trying to convince the entire country that everyone who has a gun is a racist then they will try and do that. If people are ignorant to believe that then what can we do about it? Any attempt to try a publicly distance normal gun owners will just send them searching for a story that they can spin to make it look like we are trying to hide something and if we are hiding something than it must be terrible. Like Will said, it's our right to own firearms, it's also their right to be KKK or whatever they want. A funny thing is happening in this country right now, the media is trying to convince everybody that firearms are unpopular and at the same time Americans are buying more than ever, it's only natural that they would try and associate this surge to a few "extreme" groups. Just live your life like you should and don't worry about the propaganda machine. It's not going away anytime soon and it's not like you can reason with it.

 

I agree (kind of), but that's not really the main point of my post. My point is that we cannot allow white supremecists to gain a foothold in the gun rights movement. The consequences are peripheral to the principle. I don't want it to get to the point where people see the NRA sticker on my car and associate me with the white supremecist movement. And whether you like it or not, this movement is spreading like wildfire, especially in within the gun-owning community. Stormfront.org has nearly doubled its membership in the past year.

 

And yes, I know that there will be some bad eggs in any community built around a singular ideology. But I think that if we don't do something to curb this trend, a couple bad eggs could grow into a full-blown infestation.

[Bvamp 604]

jeese, you dont remember the first banned user of this forum, McUzi.

 

Its too bad, he knew a LOT about interpretation of the law, and the laws themselves, but was such a biggot, it was unreal.

[Twinsen 86]

Interests can overlap.

 

I think it's funny though, because 70% of the voters in my state went Obama, and every one of them that I know is white.

[Jpanzer 1,265]

I would suggest that if you are reaching the conclusion that the gun rights "movement" is riddled with white supremacists by visiting stormfront.org, you are basing your assumption on less than objective data...

[bigsal 757]

Any ideology that glorifies violence is going to be attracted to the tools to perpetrate violence. Sad fact is, while guns are a fun hobby for most of us, there are some people who see them as part of their ability to inflict harm on supposed enemies.

Also I wouldn't worry about what people say about your NRA bumper sticker. People make all kind of assumptions about my VW with dancing bear decals over the back. I don't really pay much attention to what they think.

[loki0629 55]

I would suggest that if you are reaching the conclusion that the gun rights "movement" is riddled with white supremacists by visiting stormfront.org, you are basing your assumption on less than objective data...

 

+1 to that.

 

Besides, it just goes to prove the old adage true in that wherever you go, there are always going to be assholes. As far as I'm concerned, they are free to wallow in their assholiness as long as they do no harm to me or mine. I can't change them anyway.

[superA 289]

It's an impossible thing to do. The media will do whatever they need to demonize who they want. If that means trying to convince the entire country that everyone who has a gun is a racist then they will try and do that. If people are ignorant to believe that then what can we do about it? Any attempt to try a publicly distance normal gun owners will just send them searching for a story that they can spin to make it look like we are trying to hide something and if we are hiding something than it must be terrible. Like Will said, it's our right to own firearms, it's also their right to be KKK or whatever they want. A funny thing is happening in this country right now, the media is trying to convince everybody that firearms are unpopular and at the same time Americans are buying more than ever, it's only natural that they would try and associate this surge to a few "extreme" groups. Just live your life like you should and don't worry about the propaganda machine. It's not going away anytime soon and it's not like you can reason with it.

 

I agree (kind of), but that's not really the main point of my post. My point is that we cannot allow white supremecists to gain a foothold in the gun rights movement. The consequences are peripheral to the principle. I don't want it to get to the point where people see the NRA sticker on my car and associate me with the white supremecist movement. And whether you like it or not, this movement is spreading like wildfire, especially in within the gun-owning community. Stormfront.org has nearly doubled its membership in the past year.

 

And yes, I know that there will be some bad eggs in any community built around a singular ideology. But I think that if we don't do something to curb this trend, a couple bad eggs could grow into a full-blown infestation.

 

 

 

 

How? They deserve to own guns. You can't stop them, it wouldn't be right to try. You can't stop the media from twisting their message. It would do more for our cause of ensuring that politics stay out of gun rights if we start trying to divide based on an ideology that really has nothing to do with gun rights. The media would eat that alive and insinuate that even the pro 2nders feel that certain groups should not be allowed to own firearms based on what they believe, even if they are non-violent. I think the best thing to do in this scenario would be to actively pursue harsher penalties for anybody that commits crimes with guns. This way we show a blind eye towards what the criminals may have felt in order to commit a crime and on the same hand steer any thoughts of categorizing crime, hate crime, etc., this would be a display of commitment to blind justice under the law, something that even the liberal press would have a hard time knocking.

[Bizzarolibe 5]

It's an impossible thing to do. The media will do whatever they need to demonize who they want. If that means trying to convince the entire country that everyone who has a gun is a racist then they will try and do that. If people are ignorant to believe that then what can we do about it? Any attempt to try a publicly distance normal gun owners will just send them searching for a story that they can spin to make it look like we are trying to hide something and if we are hiding something than it must be terrible. Like Will said, it's our right to own firearms, it's also their right to be KKK or whatever they want. A funny thing is happening in this country right now, the media is trying to convince everybody that firearms are unpopular and at the same time Americans are buying more than ever, it's only natural that they would try and associate this surge to a few "extreme" groups. Just live your life like you should and don't worry about the propaganda machine. It's not going away anytime soon and it's not like you can reason with it.

 

I agree (kind of), but that's not really the main point of my post. My point is that we cannot allow white supremecists to gain a foothold in the gun rights movement. The consequences are peripheral to the principle. I don't want it to get to the point where people see the NRA sticker on my car and associate me with the white supremecist movement. And whether you like it or not, this movement is spreading like wildfire, especially in within the gun-owning community. Stormfront.org has nearly doubled its membership in the past year.

 

And yes, I know that there will be some bad eggs in any community built around a singular ideology. But I think that if we don't do something to curb this trend, a couple bad eggs could grow into a full-blown infestation.

 

 

 

 

How? They deserve to own guns. You can't stop them, it wouldn't be right to try. You can't stop the media from twisting their message. It would do more for our cause of ensuring that politics stay out of gun rights if we start trying to divide based on an ideology that really has nothing to do with gun rights. The media would eat that alive and insinuate that even the pro 2nders feel that certain groups should not be allowed to own firearms based on what they believe, even if they are non-violent. I think the best thing to do in this scenario would be to actively pursue harsher penalties for anybody that commits crimes with guns. This way we show a blind eye towards what the criminals may have felt in order to commit a crime and on the same hand steer any thoughts of categorizing crime, hate crime, etc., this would be a display of commitment to blind justice under the law, something that even the liberal press would have a hard time knocking.

 

Um, where in hades did I say or imply that we shouldn't allow white supremecists to own guns??

 

And as far as the media goes, I personally don't care if they tell the world that white supremecists eat babies. As far as I'm concerned they might as well.

[Bizzarolibe 5]

I would suggest that if you are reaching the conclusion that the gun rights "movement" is riddled with white supremacists by visiting stormfront.org, you are basing your assumption on less than objective data...

 

Well, first off, I'm not. Maybe it's just the area I'm in right now, but I see plenty of it in person.

 

Second, there are 172,000 members on Stormfront right now. There's nothing "subjective" about that number. Considering that forums attract only a small percent of those who would find their information relevant (many more people own Saigas than are members of this forum), it's safe to assume that there are many more white supremecists out there than we think. Unfortunately, nearly all of them identify closely with the gun rights issue and conservatism in general. I'm not saying that we're being overrun at the moment or anything like that, I'm just saying that we need to keep a close eye on the situation.

[superA 289]

It's an impossible thing to do. The media will do whatever they need to demonize who they want. If that means trying to convince the entire country that everyone who has a gun is a racist then they will try and do that. If people are ignorant to believe that then what can we do about it? Any attempt to try a publicly distance normal gun owners will just send them searching for a story that they can spin to make it look like we are trying to hide something and if we are hiding something than it must be terrible. Like Will said, it's our right to own firearms, it's also their right to be KKK or whatever they want. A funny thing is happening in this country right now, the media is trying to convince everybody that firearms are unpopular and at the same time Americans are buying more than ever, it's only natural that they would try and associate this surge to a few "extreme" groups. Just live your life like you should and don't worry about the propaganda machine. It's not going away anytime soon and it's not like you can reason with it.

 

I agree (kind of), but that's not really the main point of my post. My point is that we cannot allow white supremecists to gain a foothold in the gun rights movement. The consequences are peripheral to the principle. I don't want it to get to the point where people see the NRA sticker on my car and associate me with the white supremecist movement. And whether you like it or not, this movement is spreading like wildfire, especially in within the gun-owning community. Stormfront.org has nearly doubled its membership in the past year.

 

And yes, I know that there will be some bad eggs in any community built around a singular ideology. But I think that if we don't do something to curb this trend, a couple bad eggs could grow into a full-blown infestation.

 

 

 

 

How? They deserve to own guns. You can't stop them, it wouldn't be right to try. You can't stop the media from twisting their message. It would do more for our cause of ensuring that politics stay out of gun rights if we start trying to divide based on an ideology that really has nothing to do with gun rights. The media would eat that alive and insinuate that even the pro 2nders feel that certain groups should not be allowed to own firearms based on what they believe, even if they are non-violent. I think the best thing to do in this scenario would be to actively pursue harsher penalties for anybody that commits crimes with guns. This way we show a blind eye towards what the criminals may have felt in order to commit a crime and on the same hand steer any thoughts of categorizing crime, hate crime, etc., this would be a display of commitment to blind justice under the law, something that even the liberal press would have a hard time knocking.

 

Um, where in hades did I say or imply that we shouldn't allow white supremecists to own guns??

 

And as far as the media goes, I personally don't care if they tell the world that white supremecists eat babies. As far as I'm concerned they might as well.

 

 

 

 

 

I know you were not implying that. I was just pointing out the ways the media may attack this.

[janusthephoenix 24]

What makes the gun rights movement such a popular breeding ground for such errant, twisted ideology?

 

Location, dude. Where are most of the gun nuts? Where are most of the white supremacists? The answer to both is the rural states. Guns and racism are not like oil and water; they will mix if you put em together.

 

Any ideology that glorifies violence is going to be attracted to the tools to perpetrate violence.

 

Also true, but note the differences in attitude towards guns between inner city thugs and rural thugs. The Crips can get their hands on illegal weapons just fine and without a second thought, because that's the way they've always done it, so they still like guns but could really care less about gun laws.

 

Of course I'm basing this on second-hand hearsay and what I've seen on TV, I really have no idea what LA gangbangers think.

[zakmatthews 14]

Go to a gun show and look around you'll see many signs of white supremacist ideology.

[vbrtrmn 167]

Remember, under the Constitution of the United States, white supremacists have the right to protest and freedom of speech. Whether you disagree with their points of view or not. I'd rather have them have their rights than have my rights revoked, because of a hate group. In life, you're going to find many people you disagree with, though if you do spend some time and talk to those people, you may be surprised to find some common ground.

 

Here's an interesting one for you, the lawyer from the ACLU is Jewish!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civi...60.E2.80.932000

In 1977, the ACLU filed suit against the Village of Skokie, Illinois, seeking an injunction against the enforcement of three town ordinances outlawing Neo-Nazi parades and demonstrations. Skokie, Illinois at the time had a majority population of Jews, totaling 40,000 of 70,000 citizens. A federal district court struck down the ordinances in a decision eventually affirmed by the Supreme Court. The ACLU's action in this case led to a rift between the Jewish Defense League and the ACLU. According to David Hamlin, executive director of the Illinois ACLU, "...the Chicago office which chose to provide legal counsel to neo-Nazis who have been planning to march in Skokie, has lost about 25% of its membership and nearly one-third of its budget." 30,000 ACLU members resigned in protest. The financial strain from the controversy lead to layoffs at local chapters. In his February 23, 1978 decision overturning the town ordinances, US District Court Judge Bernard M. Decker described the principle involved in the case as follows: "It is better to allow those who preach racial hatred to expend their venom in rhetoric rather than to be panicked into embarking on the dangerous course of permitting the government to decide what its citizens may say and hear ... The ability of American society to tolerate the advocacy of even hateful doctrines ... is perhaps the best protection we have against the establishment of any Nazi-type regime in this country."

[Koliadko 207]

Remember, under the Constitution of the United States, white supremacists have the right to protest and freedom of speech. Whether you disagree with their points of view or not. I'd rather have them have their rights than have my rights revoked, because of a hate group. In life, you're going to find many people you disagree with, though if you do spend some time and talk to those people, you may be surprised to find some common ground.

 

Here's an interesting one for you, the lawyer from the ACLU is Jewish!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civi...60.E2.80.932000

In 1977, the ACLU filed suit against the Village of Skokie, Illinois, seeking an injunction against the enforcement of three town ordinances outlawing Neo-Nazi parades and demonstrations. Skokie, Illinois at the time had a majority population of Jews, totaling 40,000 of 70,000 citizens. A federal district court struck down the ordinances in a decision eventually affirmed by the Supreme Court. The ACLU's action in this case led to a rift between the Jewish Defense League and the ACLU. According to David Hamlin, executive director of the Illinois ACLU, "...the Chicago office which chose to provide legal counsel to neo-Nazis who have been planning to march in Skokie, has lost about 25% of its membership and nearly one-third of its budget." 30,000 ACLU members resigned in protest. The financial strain from the controversy lead to layoffs at local chapters. In his February 23, 1978 decision overturning the town ordinances, US District Court Judge Bernard M. Decker described the principle involved in the case as follows: "It is better to allow those who preach racial hatred to expend their venom in rhetoric rather than to be panicked into embarking on the dangerous course of permitting the government to decide what its citizens may say and hear ... The ability of American society to tolerate the advocacy of even hateful doctrines ... is perhaps the best protection we have against the establishment of any Nazi-type regime in this country."

 

 

exactly! If anyone thinks they can change peoples feelings, more power to them. And that's what it s folks. Just feelings. Now how many of you want to be the thought police?

[22_Shooter 1,560]

In reality, no one can ever say that being a gun owner = white supremacist. Simply because not every gun owner is white. Of course, we know the media doesn't deal with reality, on most occasions.

 

Do we have some white supremacists here? Probably. Who knows?

 

 

Personally, if every <insert race> supremacist died a slow, painful death tomorrow, I wouldn't lose any sleep. Any kind of race supremacy mindset is a joke. Laughable at best.

 

 

But am I supremacist of any kind? Hell yeah I am!!..........................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A Saiga-Supremacist!!!!

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

I deplore people that hate-monger, whether it be for power or because they legitimately hate a group or groups of people.

 

However, keep in mind that if I start a club that celebrates my heritage as a "European American", I will be labeled a racist or "white supremacist" by some in the media and now Homeland Security.

 

If I feel that people breaking our laws by coming across the border illegally to enjoy the fruits of our country shouldn't, I will be labeled a racist or "white supremacist" by some in the media and now Homeland Security.

 

If I feel that someone of color should have to work just as hard as a white guy to get a job/scholarship/promotion, I will be labeled a racist or "white supremacist" by some in the media and now our Supreme Court Justice nominee.

 

Yet ethnic gangs that kill other ethnic gangs will not be labeled racists. Instead it is because they have easy access to guns that they kill people different than them, or because they were born into poverty induced by me from my oppressive slave owning days.

 

 

I think part of the problem with this post is that there is a huge double standard as to what a "white supremacist" is. Racists are fucking racists no matter what color they are. I don't feel the real supremacists are as plentiful as the media would have you believe. People who are pissed off that their rights are being sold off by our government are however growing at a rapid pace.

[Reverendfranz 160]

bah, im sure at least half of that 70,000 is members of the Southern Poverty Law Center, the Anti Defamation League, the FBI, ATF, Joint Terrorism Task Forces and smaller groups like the One People's Project. Watching skinheads has become a cottage industry in this country, it would be naive to think that infiltrators, trolls, provocateurs and investigators wouldnt use the least secure and most accessible point of entry to watch, and participate with white power organizations, and create a user account, or multiples. Thats also not just america, as Stormfront tries to be international as well.

 

White supremacy is a problem in many places, but its a rapidly shrinking one, and the gun rights movement is a rapidly growing one, i dont think there is much to worry about.

[sparky63 46]

hell the us federal government is the biggest racist of all ,they need to clean there own house before going to yours or mine.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

"Supremest" are the reason I own a gun...

Islamic, White, Governmental......

 

any "hakenkreuz" jack off's wanna step up....

remember what happened outside of the ice pic back in 88....

 

Juggernaut curb stomp!!!!!

 

only difference is I weigh more now!!!

[clifton 354]

I vote, Saiga suprimasiiss .. did I spell that right?

[SOPMOD 254]

Funny that white supremacists who invented Gun Control to oppress other races are now fighting it in this country,LOL

 

Seriously,there are as many White Supremacists in Classic Car and Golfing Clubs as there are in the Gun Culture but you don't get to hear their opinions anywhere but in private conversations and the internet under an alias.

 

I have always thought that other ethnic groups should establish their own RKBA groups like the Jews did with JPFO and the Gays did with the Pink Pistols.

 

Imagine if all of the Hispanic community in this country quit behaving like they were still peasants without rights in some Latin American shithole country and embraced their rights as Americans!

 

The NRA would triple it's membership overnight and could become it's own political party.

 

We all know Hispanics are real red blooded men and all real red blooded men have an affinity for tools,machines and weapons so why haven't we reached out to them?

 

Little sawed off bigots in our ranks,that's why.

 

 

I would vote for a Hispanic presidential candidate who ran on a platform with gun rights as it's central focus and if any of these Nazi Bitches gave a shit about the 2nd Amendment they would too and in doing so possibly learn a thing or two about human nature..

Edited July 20, 2009 by SOPMOD

[superA 289]

Funny that white supremacists who invented Gun Control to oppress other races are now fighting it in this country,LOL

 

Seriously,there are as many White Supremacists in Classic Car and Golfing Clubs as there are in the Gun Culture but you don't get to hear their opinions anywhere but in private conversations and the internet under an alias.

 

I have always thought that other ethnic groups should establish their own RKBA groups like the Jews did with JPFO and the Gays did with the Pink Pistols.

 

Imagine if all of the Hispanic community in this country quit behaving like they were still peasants without rights in some Latin American shithole country and embraced their rights as Americans!

 

The NRA would triple it's membership overnight and could become it's own political party.

 

We all know Hispanics are real red blooded men and all real red blooded men have an affinity for tools,machines and weapons so why haven't we reached out to them?

 

Little sawed off bigots in our ranks,that's why.

 

 

I would vote for a Hispanic presidential candidate who ran on a platform with gun rights as it's central focus and if any of these Nazi Bitches gave a shit about the 2nd Amendment they would too and in doing so possibly learn a thing or two about human nature..

 

 

 

 

 

 

Racism ended overnight with common affinity towards firearms! The world can be very funny sometimes. Good post SOPMOD. Sounds like a story line for a Kurt Vonnegut book. I think your right to. I'm an Okie and a lot of the Mexicans we have here I really like. The majority are very hard working creative family oriented people. Some of them look what we have begun to associate as gangster but they are actually very hospitable and I kinda have a thing for Mexican women. Good cooks, hard workers and seem to be covered in lovely bumps.