Caspian 32 Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Some of you guys thrive on "the sky is falling". Doesn't "Survivor" fill your need for drama? Look, it's plain and simple. there is no empiracle proof where a 10 round mag makes a shotgun an DD. Either show me DIFINITIVE proof or STFU. Now, for your business. THe guys saying, "your gonna get sued", don't take a risk have never embarked on a personal busniess venture. They're happy sucking off the tit of the public. Talk to an accountant, set up a LLC ($100ish). That will protect your personal assets. Honestly, there's not much risk with manufacturing a magazine. Lawyers will go after the gun amnuf. of the ammo company before they chase you down. Do the math, a multimillion dollar manuf/importer, multimillion dollar ammo manuf, or a guy who made a few grand from some 10 round mags. Lawyers get 30-50% where do you think they'll concentrate thier focus? Regards, Caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Some of you guys thrive on "the sky is falling". Doesn't "Survivor" fill your need for drama? Look, it's plain and simple. there is no empiracle proof where a 10 round mag makes a shotgun an DD. Either show me DIFINITIVE proof or STFU. Now, for your business. THe guys saying, "your gonna get sued", don't take a risk have never embarked on a personal busniess venture. They're happy sucking off the tit of the public. Talk to an accountant, set up a LLC ($100ish). That will protect your personal assets. Honestly, there's not much risk with manufacturing a magazine. Lawyers will go after the gun amnuf. of the ammo company before they chase you down. Do the math, a multimillion dollar manuf/importer, multimillion dollar ammo manuf, or a guy who made a few grand from some 10 round mags. Lawyers get 30-50% where do you think they'll concentrate thier focus? Regards, Caspian Caspian, Thanks for your opinion. However, without the benefit of incorporation shelter any asswipe can sue you for your personal assets and there are plenty of ambulance chasing attorneys to help out. Why risk your home, cars, and other possesions when you can legally incorporate and insulate yourself. It's easy to play cheerleader and tell the other guy to produce and sell the mags but who is is going to indemnify him when and if shit hits the fan. I am not telling him to do anything that I would not do myself. But then I have many years of business experience and deal with blood sucking lawyers all the time. Don't think the deep pockets theory will prevail. Many lawyers file suit just to negotiate a settlement. It is cheaper to settle than to go the distance. that is practical reality. I know how it works but it is no skin off my ass. Just a word to the wise. Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmbswu 0 Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Motorcityman, Being that the military is currently using Saiga mags for its modular shotgun system, you have an excellent chance at making some money off the US government. It is only fitting that our tax dollars will help finance our pursuit of Saiga-12 accessories! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zipgun 0 Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Haven't looked at this thread for awhile and have seen that McUzi has done his usual mean and nasty number like he has done on other forums. Whether he is right or wrong his rants and lack of civility diminish the quality of life around here. I am leaving this forum and will be back when enough of you are bashed by McUzi and ask him to leave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TekOps1 0 Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Moto, How about "Lock & Load" "Made in the USA! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 " Magazine, 12GA. extended. Proudly made in U.S.A " "patriot model, espically suited for homeland defence" G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StarLynx 0 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 (edited) Awww..that Citizen Use only is purty kewl... ..but on mine..just put.."Kill'em ALL..Let Gawd Sort'em out"..Is fine with me... Edited April 7, 2005 by StarLynx Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MLM59 0 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 I'm new here & new to the Saiga shotgun, but you can count me in for at least two, probably more of the 10 errrr, 9rd mags. Whatever you want to call them, if they hold that many rds & are fairly affordable I want some! I wouldn't mind if they said "Made In the USA", by the way. MLM59 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 I might order one from you just so i know who to visit when the facist state of NY seizes mine when its declared a DD like EVERY OTHER TEN ROUND SHOTGUN HAS BEEN!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LooneyTunes 0 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 Motorcityman, i appreciate your determination in making this happen in spite of all the challenges. i would like to buy 5 mags instead of the 3 i had mentioned before, assuming that your price is significantly less than the current competition. and i will encourage my friends to support this project as well. i love the "For Civilian Use Only" wording on the mags idea. what a powerful & defiant statement in this insanely antigun world we live in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 I might order one from you just so i know who to visit when the facist state of NY seizes mine when its declared a DD like EVERY OTHER TEN ROUND SHOTGUN HAS BEEN!!! Bvamp, Why not buy two? When you get them I will bring my video camera to your place and make a recording of it in full use as you shoot the hell out of things on your property. Then we can mail in one mag. with the tape to BATF for their written opinion on whether or not it is a DD. No sense in wasting time and alot of other guys money in finding out. Right? We could do the same for the drum mag. if that comes out first. Looks like it could be a race for which one will get the attention. Is it me or are the guys at AR15.com alot more cryptic about projects? Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 actually i cant legally own a ten round mag for a semi auto shotgun in NY, so thats neither here nor there anyhow. someone name me one shotgun that has a ten round mag in production for it or had one in production for it that is not a DD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 someone name me one shotgun that has a ten round mag in production for it or had one in production for it that is not a DD. Saiga-12........... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 i dont see any ten rounders made for it YET. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 lol............................................. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 actually i cant legally own a ten round mag for a semi auto shotgun in NY, so thats neither here nor there anyhow. someone name me one shotgun that has a ten round mag in production for it or had one in production for it that is not a DD. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 10 round semiauto shotgun next. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 actually i cant legally own a ten round mag for a semi auto shotgun in NY, so thats neither here nor there anyhow. someone name me one shotgun that has a ten round mag in production for it or had one in production for it that is not a DD. 10 round semiauto shotgun next. Looks like this might be an option if the Saiga project doesn't work out. Although I have read some of the USA manufacturers are producing their tube fed pumps and semiautos so that an extension cannot be screwed on or affixed. Supposedly it is an LEO only thing. It would be interesting to have BATF's take on this 10 round tube fed semi auto also. Of course changing mags and loading tubes are not the same thing. You can drop and slap a mag in a few seconds. Loading up the Rem tube would take longer under normal circumstances. Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swiftvision 0 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 yea, you guys with the ranting about it going to be DD device is retard. Seriously STFU. I personally think your all cowards but whateva. You think 10 rounds of 12 gauge is worse then the 100 rounds of 5.56 in an AR? BS, Hell the MOSSBERG has 10 round capsities. It's NOT a big deal. If they DD the saiga then alot of other crap is going too....aka another ban. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grau_Tek 0 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 yeah... what swift said .... ill take 4-6 please Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 yea, you guys with the ranting about it going to be DD device is retard. Seriously STFU. I personally think your all cowards but whateva. You think 10 rounds of 12 gauge is worse then the 100 rounds of 5.56 in an AR? BS, Hell the MOSSBERG has 10 round capsities. It's NOT a big deal. If they DD the saiga then alot of other crap is going too....aka another ban. swiftvision, Tough talk. You are entitled to your opinion about whether or not the Saiga will end up on the DD list. But so are the people who think it will. Could you explain to your fellow members why you would call them cowards and to STFU because they don't agree with you and some others? If you keep this up I will call and write the BATF myself. Then we'll see what side they come down on. How's that for a coward? Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McUZI 1 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 If you keep this up I will call and write the BATF myself. Then we'll see what side they come down on. How's that for a coward? Wolverine <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Honestly, I could care less if they do become DD's. I already own NFA goodies and I have a few brand new S12's sitting here in the box, so it ain't like i'd lose out on anything. If the saiga 12 golden door ever closes, i'm already in, so whatever. That said, forcing the ATF's hand on the issue serves no purpose. "Could" the Saiga 12 be reclassed as a DD using earlier criteria? Possibly, if some moron insists on making it that way. Working against that happening is the fact that ATF has already called them (s12's) Title 1 guns (Yes, even 12C's) so it would be a direct reversal of their earlier opinions on the gun which were made AFTER the DD decrees had already been made for the Evil 3. In short, they called the Evil 3 DD's, yet allowed importation of S12's as Title 1 firearms AFTER that ruling. Since DD shotgun rulings aren't a matter of legal language but a matter of someones "opinion" (i.e- the Director), it is a pretty safe bet that at some point in the future, after administrations change and the opinions of those in charge of ATF change in consort, a DD ruling could become a possibility. But today? We have a pro-gun president. We have a VERY strong effort to clean up the NFA branch, appointing a new administrator in Ken Houchens who seems to be a fair man, and moving the whole shop to WV so it won't be run by a bunch of Washington, DC negresses. We have our typically abusive ATF that is being forced to work against criminals instead of working against honest gun owners. WE ALSO HAVE NO LAWS PROHIBITING SAIGA 12'S IN ANY CONFIGURATION. Why would someone put ATF in such a position that would serve no purpose other than to restrict firearms? Be patient... That will happen in due time, and it won't just be a "Saiga 12" issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 (edited) Who here thinks the BATF is gonna re-class this shotgun based on this forum, or it's garage made offerings? just curious..... Are there not plenty of other project legal guns that would be way more deadly in the wrong hands? I know that I won't blame anyone here on this forum talking, then say you made it for this shotgun to become a DD. But I'll laugh because of all the people calling BATF branch units with specifics....lol I called once for a form 6....I didn't even like calling for that....lol This thread is full of FEAR.....6+ pages of it........ and all for mags that don't exist........ Edited April 7, 2005 by dodgeturbointerceptor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 just wait a couple years for democrats to make thier way back in. hey i dont care either way, i already have mine. im more interested in proliferation of the s12 than mags and all that fun stuff. but.all that aside? uncle sam wants to own you and me. give them an excuse, they WILL take it. i dont have any problem telling an ATF man to go get a warrant, but hell....why TRY to confront em? just go get a USAS mag and convert it is my theory....if its a converted mag, how could they even eye the other gun? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McUZI 1 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 Are there not plenty of other project legal guns that would be way more deadly in the wrong hands? Reclassifying 12 gauge shotguns isn't a matter of getting the most "deadly" weapon. It's a simple matter of legal language. Fact is, there is no legal language that allows the ATF to just all of a sudden "reclassify" an AR15 with a Beta mag- but due to the provisos of the 1968 GCA, they can get away with it on shotguns. This thread is full of FEAR.....6+ pages of it........ and all for mags that don't exist........ <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I totally agree 100%. All this fear is nonsense. Unfortunatley, itt stands as testimony to the willingness of some people to actually fight should the time come. I'm not talking as much about shooting at uniforms, but I am talking about going into the courts and telling the ATF that they are out of line in doing some things. Many of the same people who talk about cold, dead hands are the same people who are too afraid to buy an 8 round Saiga mag, even though they are perfectly legal in doing so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 They can have my AKS-12 and my new 8 round mag when they pry my cold dead ass hands from around it!! I vote and write letters! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Motor, i'm in for at least one maybe more depending on the price. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mopeman 0 Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 I don't know about the other members, but I'm getting very tired of reading all this crap about DD this and DD that. We are the PEOPLE, and we do vote and have a voice, and give those pencil neck geeks their jobs. If people would stop crying about things and make shit happen, we wouldn't have to be watching our backs all the damn time. I for one will still buy at least 4 mags and would like to know if Motorcityman needs someone to help him test them I will gladly volunter. I feel bad that he just wanted to let us know that he might be making something and this is what it turned out like! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ignition 9 Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 i dont know if your keeping a running tab on this thread or not motorcity. but i applaud you. im not going into the semantics of it all, because it has all been said. I would love to order between 2-4 depending on size 8-10rd or if even just 5rd. and also the price. if 50 i will only order 2 no matter what the size as long as it is 5+rd all the politics can be fought at the grassroots level. for civilian use only is wonderful. also could try "for use of 2nd amendment purposes only" "The Right To Keep and Bear Arms" "Size does matter" <---ROTF "made in the USA" and make your own little production stamp. that would be kinda cool Quote Link to post Share on other sites
motorcityman 0 Posted April 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 The only mistake i made was asking the lovers of this shotgun if they would be interested in what i was interested in making, i knew they would be because ever since i bought my first saiga 12 and paid my first 100plus dollars for an eight round mag i always dreamed persay of a cheaper source of higher cap mags...above five rounds, hell my 97 winchester has 5 rounds, i knew i'd buy it if someone built them, i should have just one day posted a thread on this forum as NEW 10RD MAG FOR SALE and just went with that, i have many ideas for accesroies and such, never again will i ever open my fat mouth on what i'm going to do, everyone has their opinions and it doesnt bother me if they express them, but to tell me this and tell me that...just negatives and constant at that. I just figured i'd make an afordable mag for the people, weather the mag was 5,6,7,8 ten even 20 there would be negative opinions on why i shouldnt make them.. With that i said....I am making them =)~ next i'm gonna build a belt fed saiga 12 how about that! Two hundred round belts and a tripod w. optional pintle socket for your duck boat spade grips and spot lights maybe a damn grenade launcher too who knows maybe a hand cranked mini gun in 12 guage the skys the limit, lol.... Take care all Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StarLynx 0 Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Hey MCMan.....Anytime ya wann'a borrow my S12-TACTICAL Nuke attachment..Just gimme a shout!..it's great for scare'n up Texas Blu-Quail!... Ya got real Steel big guy..I'd be proud ta fly your Starboard wing,ANYTIME!... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.