Its getting way out of control!

[cvhanh20 1,052]

I'm not looking for this to be a cop bashing thread, but our local LEO's are way out there with their tough guy, ultra badass attitude's. Things are changing for the worst in my community with the way LEO's are handling their day to day activities here and if this type treatment towards the people continue I fear for the worst. I don't know if their being pressured to act in this manner or what WTF, but its not good! I'm wondering how many others area are having this issue?

[Bayoupiper 738]

Part of it is the level of violence already going on in other parts of the country.

 

In what we call the Force Continuum, Officer Presence is the first level of control.

That is a uniformed or announced police officer is on the scene and is taking control of the situation.

I teach my cadets how to use the Billy-Boy Bad Ass attitude IF that is what is needed at the time.

I also teach them that particular attitude is only for use in a certain few instances.

It does no harm to approach every situation you can with a calm, reserved attitude.

And then if the situation warrants, kick the living crap out of whoever deserves it and move on.

 

Unfortunately, some cops adopt this mentality 24-7 without regard for the specifics and dynamics of the situation they may be in.

I have seen situations that were perfectly calm and under control explode into full blow riots because a Wyatt Earp attitude cop arrived on scene.

I have also seen a knock down, drag out fight go completely calm when the same cop shows up.

So it really is a catch 22 situation for the cops.

 

That attitude is a needed part of law enforcement, but needs to be reserved for the RIGHT situation or circumstance.

 

When used and abused, it foments the type of resentment you are talking about.

 

If it is really becoming that noticeable of a problem, I'd suggest someone talk to the Chief to see if he is aware of it and see where it goes from there.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Dancing Bear

[Jpanzer 1,265]

Was an incident in a small town near me recently. A couple of teenage "urban predators" were going to convenience stores and robbing them at gunpoint. The cops show up after the fact and demand the surveillance tape. The guy at the register says he will call the store owner and let him handle it. The call is placed about midnight. The owner explains he is not presently near his home, but wil drive to the store and meet the police at 5am. The cops become agitated, and demand he come now. He explains he is out of town and will be there ASAP. Well, the security video has continued to run the entire time, and the cops are caught on tape verbally abusing the owner and calling him every ethnic slur they can think of. When the owner shows at 5am, he is accosted by the same cop who called along with a local police detective. They confront him, engage him in a heated dispute, and as he tries to walk into his store they pounce, pummel him, and take him to the ground.

 

Unbeknownst to the cops, all of this was caught on additional security tape WITH AUDIO, so there was no way they could wriggle off the hook. The perps? Picked up by another local jurisdiction a few miles away while the local heroes were assualting the law abiding store owner who was doing all he could to help them out!

 

The bad cops? Written reprimands were the only censure they received. The store owner is suing the hell out of them, and I hope the dude wins....

Edited April 8, 2010 by Jpanzer

[Ruffian72 548]

it's the mentality of the department. Some jurisdictions actually want the jack-booted-thug attitude. Brother is a police chief. Twice he has been hired when that attitude gets out of hand, and city councils want it turned around. Anyone in LEO has seen or knows the attitude I speak of. It's easy to go down this route, power trip. Easy to go from "Protect and Serve" to "Training Day". Power corrupts, takes level headed supervisors to watch for signs, yet if the juridiction has/wants that mentality.

[Bayoupiper 738]

it's the mentality of the department. Some jurisdictions actually want the jack-booted-thug attitude. Brother is a police chief. Twice he has been hired when that attitude gets out of hand, and city councils want it turned around. Anyone in LEO has seen or knows the attitude I speak of. It's easy to go down this route, power trip. Easy to go from "Protect and Serve" to "Training Day". Power corrupts, takes level headed supervisors to watch for signs, yet if the juridiction has/wants that mentality.

 

 

 

 

 

Well stated.

 

 

 

You win a cookie!

 

[superA 289]

I'm sorry but I don't ever see a time when "Billie Bad-Ass" is justified. There are plenty of ways to control any situation without acting like a tremendous Ass hole. I've seen it plenty of times and not once did I think to myself that this is a guy that has his shit under control. I just figured he was a little punk who was about to pee his pants or he was one of the bad cops that I might need to get control of if he started to abuse my rights as a citizen. If they are true men, intellectually competent to hold a position of authority and a gun to enforce it with you shouldn't need to teach them how to handle themselves with regards to an attitude. This is dangerous and it's going to get worse. Just Google "police brutality" and see the trash that comes up. The more this goes on unpunished and exposed the more people are going to look at the police as an enemy and possibly a mortal threat.

[DogMan 2,343]

Wow, I like everything Dancing Bear has said so far. Very fair and balanced. This could be a trap.

 

 

[padenbrown 2]

FUCK THE POPO!!! lol jk but seriously, lol jk

[Paulyski 2,227]

Usually the "attitude" has to be used on younger men & the "thug" type.

Strangely enough, it can be reassuring to them & make them feel safer, or at least less likely to try to swing on you.

Not a cop here, but they tend to bring me quite a few of their clients & it's usually the younger guys that haven't had the crap kicked out of them sufficiently yet that that attitude helps achieve order out of.

 

I've spent the last 2 weeks with the type. It sucks.

You don't want to have to be "that guy". Too stressful.

If all else fails... 4 points. But then you feel like a real dick...

But they work. Kind of in a spirit crushing way, but none the less.

 

 

 

ETA:

I tell you.... "Love is in the air" all over the place right now.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Paulyski

[Bayoupiper 738]

Wow, I like everything Dancing Bear has said so far. Very fair and balanced. This could be a trap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't make me put you on the chain in the back yard again!

[Bayoupiper 738]

I'm sorry but I don't ever see a time when "Billie Bad-Ass" is justified. There are plenty of ways to control any situation without acting like a tremendous Ass hole. I've seen it plenty of times and not once did I think to myself that this is a guy that has his shit under control. I just figured he was a little punk who was about to pee his pants or he was one of the bad cops that I might need to get control of if he started to abuse my rights as a citizen. If they are true men, intellectually competent to hold a position of authority and a gun to enforce it with you shouldn't need to teach them how to handle themselves with regards to an attitude. This is dangerous and it's going to get worse. Just Google "police brutality" and see the trash that comes up. The more this goes on unpunished and exposed the more people are going to look at the police as an enemy and possibly a mortal threat.

 

 

 

So, how should cops deal with a totally uncooperative and combative person?

 

Ask them "pretty please"?????

[bigsal 757]

FUCK THE POPO!!!

 

 

Thats my attitude as well, I don't need some jack-booted-para-military roving around in his ticket-mobile waiting to pray on me or my wife when the city payroll is coming due. These people need to take a long hard look at their lives as revenue agents of the state and decide if they can live with themselves or not.

 

Now, anyone that knows me knows I am no cop basher, but enough is enough....

[bohound 281]

If I'm not mistaken, local and state police departments aren't even covered in the Constitution. I'd like to see the country go back to the county sheriff being the ONLY department in a county, and any regional and/or state guard units (under SOLE power of the state) in a supporting role, if needed.

 

Techinically, ANY other "police" save the County Sheriff is a CORPORATE (for profit) entity, and should be exposed as such.

 

Half the problem is the TYPE of officer coming on the job now a days. Since WHEN has a "peace officer" become a "Law ENFORCEMENT Officer"???... We've all been brainwashed to believe that a man or woman in a fancy costume with a piece of stamped tin called a "badge" and a gun has SUPREME autority over us all. Why don't you show me YOUR ID, "officer". While you're at it, do you KNOW WHO you really work for?

 

What people need to do is tax the system BACK... What I mean by that is easy: Excersize your rights to a trial by jury, no matter HOW small the "offense". This will certainly clog the court system, be negatively cost effective, and hopefully send a warning message to all localities that generate revenue by terrorizing citizens: We will be trifled with NO LONGER!

 

Any "crime" that does not have a legetimately aggrieved victim (ie, pretty much anything but murder, rape, and theft) is no crime in my eyes, but a civil matter.

 

It's all about filling those fancy new jails they keep building. Soon it will be about filling bigger jails, etc.

 

People ARE starting to wake up to the whole CORPORATE scheme, albeit slowly. Corrupt or overzealous corporate agents will likely be running into more and more individuals who KNOW their endowed rights, and have drawn a line in the proverbial sand. I pray that these men and women can admit when they are wrong or acting immorally. Until then, I think we are all going to see much more escalating brutality on either side of the issue.

Edited April 8, 2010 by bohound

[patriot 7,197]

It used to be Andy Griffith. (Peace Officer) Now they wanna be Steven Segal. (Law ENFORCEMENT)

[sharkbit 109]

I'm not looking for this to be a cop bashing thread, but our local LEO's are way out there with their tough guy, ultra badass attitude's. Things are changing for the worst in my community with the way LEO's are handling their day to day activities here and if this type treatment towards the people continue I fear for the worst. I don't know if their being pressured to act in this manner or what WTF, but its not good! I'm wondering how many others area are having this issue?

 

 

so what happened? anything you can talk about in specific?

[Vultite 57]

every department has bad cops in them, usually it takes something big/drastic to change some attitudes though. If there is some serious legal or ethical issues at hand with any officer, you should report it immediately to internal affairs or a high ranking officer. I once had a rookie give me a hard time until he saw my badge in my wallet (EMS, not LEO) and he calmed down a bit and explained to me he had a tough time earlier with a baker act. No big deal, but I don't take out my anger on my patients...sometimes they need to blow off steam, just not on the general public.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Vultite

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

What gets me is the level of discipline (or lack thereof) that these guys face.

 

I understand we all screw up at work from time to time, and usually the boss has something to say about it. But the consequences of many of our errors - a broken product, a couple bucks in misplaced change, that job done half assed on a hangover, usually will get you written up or suspended or fired depending where you work and what you did. At my old job drunk driving would (obviously) get you fired, but you'd also face the law and lose your license. Fair is fair. Just because you're driving the delivery truck means you get away with DUI.

 

What gets to me is that I understand even under their duty, a very tough duty, cops can and will make mistakes.

 

I understand that. It's cool. Really. But the difference between the consequences of their errors and the punishment they receive, for reasons that are many, is usually nowhere proportional for these guys. I've read news articles where they've beaten a handcuffed drunk to death on the side of the road, on camera, and got a two week (paid) suspension. Where they stripped a woman naked and held her at gunpoint for hours, wrongly, and it was just a "oops". Where they showed up to a call of an assault, and actually beat the shit out of the guy who was the one who had been assaulted. whoops. paid suspension.

 

Right now there's a case in Camden, NJ. Two cops are going to be put before a grand jury in federal court to answer for their crimes.

 

It only took 185 documented cases of abuse to bring them there.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Klassy Kalashnikov

[Toby Allen 0]

I'm sorry but I don't ever see a time when "Billie Bad-Ass" is justified. There are plenty of ways to control any situation without acting like a tremendous Ass hole. I've seen it plenty of times and not once did I think to myself that this is a guy that has his shit under control. I just figured he was a little punk who was about to pee his pants or he was one of the bad cops that I might need to get control of if he started to abuse my rights as a citizen. If they are true men, intellectually competent to hold a position of authority and a gun to enforce it with you shouldn't need to teach them how to handle themselves with regards to an attitude. This is dangerous and it's going to get worse. Just Google "police brutality" and see the trash that comes up. The more this goes on unpunished and exposed the more people are going to look at the police as an enemy and possibly a mortal threat.

 

 

this video is kind of long but it shows how bad things have become nowdays. it does not matter who you are, if the "LAW" sets it's sights on you that is the end of your rights. even if the "LAW" is wrong.

 

http://videosift.com/video/The-Largest-Street-Gang-in-America

[kdbutler 563]

Thats my attitude as well, I don't need some jack-booted-para-military roving around in his ticket-mobile waiting to pray on me or my wife when the city payroll is coming due.

 

You got a wife, Sal? Damn! How'd ya make that happen? j/k

[Stansplace 414]

[superA 289]

I'm sorry but I don't ever see a time when "Billie Bad-Ass" is justified. There are plenty of ways to control any situation without acting like a tremendous Ass hole. I've seen it plenty of times and not once did I think to myself that this is a guy that has his shit under control. I just figured he was a little punk who was about to pee his pants or he was one of the bad cops that I might need to get control of if he started to abuse my rights as a citizen. If they are true men, intellectually competent to hold a position of authority and a gun to enforce it with you shouldn't need to teach them how to handle themselves with regards to an attitude. This is dangerous and it's going to get worse. Just Google "police brutality" and see the trash that comes up. The more this goes on unpunished and exposed the more people are going to look at the police as an enemy and possibly a mortal threat.

 

 

 

So, how should cops deal with a totally uncooperative and combative person?

 

Ask them "pretty please"?????

 

 

 

 

Please...when it get's this bad and usually not even that bad you guys pull one of your weapons and put the guy in cuffs. What I'm saying is there are all sorts of ways to get control of a situation and they don't involve a Billy Bad-Ass attitude. What ever happened to speak softly and carry a big stick? This attitude you speak of is nothing more than a green light for a sadistic emotional release. And I've about heard enough of the "bad apples in every bunch" argument. It has been proven time after time that if it's not the cop that's doing it then they are helping cover it up, of course there is the rare case. I have run into cops before that get that attitude when they have the uniform and the State backing them up. When it's after hours it's a totally different story. Maybe in your quest to control people you should remember how to deal with bullies instead of trying to act like one.

 

 

P.S.

I am using generalities when I speak and not necessarily addressing you as an individual. I don't know you from Adam and you may very well be a stand up guy.

[superA 289]

It used to be Andy Griffith. (Peace Officer) Now they wanna be Steven Segal. (Law ENFORCEMENT)

 

 

 

Why would anyone want to be Steven Segal.

[superA 289]

What gets me is the level of discipline (or lack thereof) that these guys face.

 

I understand we all screw up at work from time to time, and usually the boss has something to say about it. But the consequences of many of our errors - a broken product, a couple bucks in misplaced change, that job done half assed on a hangover, usually will get you written up or suspended or fired depending where you work and what you did. At my old job drunk driving would (obviously) get you fired, but you'd also face the law and lose your license. Fair is fair. Just because you're driving the delivery truck means you get away with DUI.

 

What gets to me is that I understand even under their duty, a very tough duty, cops can and will make mistakes.

 

I understand that. It's cool. Really. But the difference between the consequences of their errors and the punishment they receive, for reasons that are many, is usually nowhere proportional for these guys. I've read news articles where they've beaten a handcuffed drunk to death on the side of the road, on camera, and got a two week (paid) suspension. Where they stripped a woman naked and held her at gunpoint for hours, wrongly, and it was just a "oops". Where they showed up to a call of an assault, and actually beat the shit out of the guy who was the one who had been assaulted. whoops. paid suspension.

 

Right now there's a case in Camden, NJ. Two cops are going to be put before a grand jury in federal court to answer for their crimes.

 

It only took 185 documented cases of abuse to bring them there.

 

 

 

 

That's right Klassy. Basically they get a paid vacation most of the time. People won't stand for these punks forever.

[patriot 7,197]

It used to be Andy Griffith. (Peace Officer) Now they wanna be Steven Segal. (Law ENFORCEMENT)

 

 

 

Why would anyone want to be Steven Segal.

 

...to bang Kelly LeBrock?

[bohound 281]

It used to be Andy Griffith. (Peace Officer) Now they wanna be Steven Segal. (Law ENFORCEMENT)

 

 

 

Why would anyone want to be Steven Segal.

 

...to bang Kelly LeBrock?

 

You mean the "Weird Science" woman??? She's still ALIVE!?! She was almost over the hill in that movie, circa 1984 or so! She's got to be at least in her 60's!

 

After the debacle that is "Lawman", NOBODY wants to be Steven Segal... If even to bang a has been septagenarian.

 

Time has NOT been kind to Ms. LeBrock. Are those MAN HANDS on "her"???

Edited April 9, 2010 by bohound

[superA 289]

I will add this. A year or so back some police showed up at my house. Someone in the area had been lighting fireworks and they were checking us out. The approached us in my back yard with the light shining in my face. I asked twice who it was and they never responded. I told the kids to get inside quick and I got out of the way of their lights to see who it was. They told me what they wanted and I said they could come in back and check it out. They were bullies and I could tell, one of the reasons I knew this is they felt no need to announce themselves as they marched up my yard at night with a light in my face. So I met them at the door and decided I would only let one of them in and the other had to stay outside. You should have seen the look on his face, he tried to insist but I stood my ground. He was pissed off the whole time and as he was leaving he told me I shouldn't be drinking beer around kids. I was not even close to intoxicated, I told him that the last time I checked it was still a free Country, got his name and told him to get out of my house. The next day I went up and told the Captain what had happened. He was outraged at their behavior and offered to bring it before a committee or whatever they do when they find out about misconduct, I don't remember what he called it. I told him that there was no need for that as long as he gave them a royal ass chewing and made them understand that I was very close to drawing down on them. You don't walk up on people at night with their kids and not announce yourself. It's flat out stupid and reckless. I guess what I'm trying to get at is despite a very good Captain running things, their Billy Bad-Ass attitude almost caused some major trouble, and it was over possible use of a firework.

[superA 289]

It used to be Andy Griffith. (Peace Officer) Now they wanna be Steven Segal. (Law ENFORCEMENT)

 

 

 

Why would anyone want to be Steven Segal.

 

...to bang Kelly LeBrock?

 

 

 

Not even to bang Angelina Jolie. I'd rather masturbate my whole life. :lolol:

[454496 71]

Its called something like the Authoritarian Effect. The Effect leads humans to believe they are all powerful and their words and actions are law. It can be caused from the clothes humans wear. (uniforms), their title, the job they are getting payed for etc..

 

Many of the hired congressmen are under the Effect now and need to be fired.

[superA 289]

Its called something like the Authoritarian Effect. The Effect leads humans to believe they are all powerful and their words and actions are law. It can be caused from the clothes humans wear. (uniforms), their title, the job they are getting payed for etc..

 

Many of the hired congressmen are under the Effect now and need to be fired.

 

 

 

Right. Studies have even shown that children will treat their peers like crap if led to believe they are better for some reason. This takes less than a day at school for this behavior to come out. If someone needs to be arrested then arrest them. Just don't act like you are two steps away from beating the snot out of them in an attempt to gain control of a situation. A few months ago an off duty cop tried this shit with my brother. He decided to be a bad ass with a pool cue and my brother handled things. Now my brother is a tough guy, but nothing too fancy and neither am I. But when toughness is an act or attitude shit often doesn't go the way you planned it, unless you have more guys backing you up, at which point it becomes oppression and gang mentality. Pure and simple.

[bigsal 757]

 

 

You got a wife, Sal? Damn! How'd ya make that happen? j/k

 

I think she was drunk at the time.....