setlab 11 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Well I took the gamble. I just called Brian and said I'd take one! And really as others have said $1500 isn't much more than what you would pay for the equivalent saiga with the American made mods to it. My monies on a year or two from now this gun being worth close to twice it's current value, not that I would consider ever selling it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
setlab 11 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Brian also said the Russians were really raping them on cost and that $1500 was set in stone before the supposed import ban was mentioned. So I'm guessing if they do get the same gun minus the front pictionary rail the cost will still be relatively the same. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jeep297 20 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I think the question at that price is collectability and bragging rights. If a guy has a checkbook, likes the looks, and doesn't care, he will buy. It's no different than the people who buy beanie babies. But that also means they are testing the market for the Russian magwell guns. We can neuter one of those just as easily as the Plain Jane 109 to get it in. I'm guessing they might be able to bring in something like this http://gunlegionusa.com/en/index.php/id354 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skiboatsp 111 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I think the question at that price is collectability and bragging rights. If a guy has a checkbook, likes the looks, and doesn't care, he will buy. It's no different than the people who buy beanie babies. But that also means they are testing the market for the Russian magwell guns. We can neuter one of those just as easily as the Plain Jane 109 to get it in. I'm guessing they might be able to bring in something like this http://gunlegionusa....index.php/id354 Or this Sorry guys I just had to Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snooter 6 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I understand "investment startegy" but it's important to also "want" something like this because it's indeed a financial risk. Could be profitable... could be lossy. If one really wants the item(s) then at least he/she can enjoy the "thing" for what it is even after taking the fiscal hit. That stated, I'm not buying anything like this pricey Saiga because I can make a lot more money buying drums and hi-cap mags... plus they'll be much easier/quicker to sell due to the lesser cost per item. Regards to firearms... simpler/cheaper/stock is more likely to be profitable and will probably increase in "percentage" value far more than the pricey "custom/rare" ones. No... I'm not "hording" mags or Saigas but I am buying one each for myself while I still can (I want them anyway) and buying more mags than I'll ever need so I can sell or trade them if I deem appropriate... and I know it's very unlikely that I'll ever "lose money" on them. finally somebody understands were the money is/could be made if god forbid we have another AWB..the monies made during the ban was in mags and drums...anybody remember $800 beta mags and $125 scherer crap glock mags...even standard capacity glock mags were $60 sans G20 mags which i seen at $150...guns made money but you had to have bought before the 1989 ban..percentage wise the biggest increase was in mags..back in 1986 ar15 mags were a few dollars...during the ban they fetched $30 and more..thats a huge percentage increase..ok ill play nice..if you want one get one..whatever the outcome we are fellow pro gun group here and thats ok by me...god speed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jeep297 20 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I understand "investment startegy" but it's important to also "want" something like this because it's indeed a financial risk. Could be profitable... could be lossy. If one really wants the item(s) then at least he/she can enjoy the "thing" for what it is even after taking the fiscal hit. That stated, I'm not buying anything like this pricey Saiga because I can make a lot more money buying drums and hi-cap mags... plus they'll be much easier/quicker to sell due to the lesser cost per item. Regards to firearms... simpler/cheaper/stock is more likely to be profitable and will probably increase in "percentage" value far more than the pricey "custom/rare" ones. No... I'm not "hording" mags or Saigas but I am buying one each for myself while I still can (I want them anyway) and buying more mags than I'll ever need so I can sell or trade them if I deem appropriate... and I know it's very unlikely that I'll ever "lose money" on them. finally somebody understands were the money is/could be made if god forbid we have another AWB..the monies made during the ban was in mags and drums...anybody remember $800 beta mags and $125 scherer crap glock mags...even standard capacity glock mags were $60 sans G20 mags which i seen at $150...guns made money but you had to have bought before the 1989 ban..percentage wise the biggest increase was in mags..back in 1986 ar15 mags were a few dollars...during the ban they fetched $30 and more..thats a huge percentage increase..ok ill play nice..if you want one get one..whatever the outcome we are fellow pro gun group here and thats ok by me...god speed Good points but right now it seems this model has a higher percentage of being banned from importation as it directly goes against their "study" whereas I haven't seen anything as concrete against mags. Time will tell though. I'm sure we could all agree that it would be much nicer if we didn't have all these ridiculous restrictions/potential bans in the first place. I wish we were all getting un-neutered models for more affordable prices. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike1234567 26 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I wish we were all getting un-neutered models for more affordable prices. Mine definitely won't be "neutered", i.e., I bought 2 ProMag 12rnd drums (nutsacks) for the S-12 and will buy 2 more soon... but not at inflated prices. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jeep297 20 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I wish we were all getting un-neutered models for more affordable prices. Mine definitely won't be "neutered", i.e., I bought 2 ProMag 12rnd drums (nutsacks) for the S-12 and will buy 2 more soon... but not at inflated prices. I bought a couple promag 12 drums too (this site is selling them for decent prices). Although I love my MD20s these seem more practical. I wonder if MD will come out with some smaller drums soon.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jpanzer 1,265 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I think the question at that price is collectability and bragging rights. If a guy has a checkbook, likes the looks, and doesn't care, he will buy. It's no different than the people who buy beanie babies. But that also means they are testing the market for the Russian magwell guns. We can neuter one of those just as easily as the Plain Jane 109 to get it in. I'm guessing they might be able to bring in something like this http://gunlegionusa.com/en/index.php/id354 This I might be interested in: "SAIGA-12" TACTICS-040-011M* VER. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 So there's literally only 200 of these up for grabs? If so, does anyone have an idea of how many are left? It's out of my price range and wants right now, but I'm curious. Seems like only 200 of these would sell out fairly quick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
setlab 11 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I was invoice #54 if that means anything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 How many of you gents are going to do a conversion? Are they going to be untouched safe queens? Shooters "as-is"? Converted with all the (as many as 922 will allow) correct parts to clone a true 030? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mpoppel41 24 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 i was invoiced at 25, and his buddy is getting lonely Uploaded with ImageShack.us Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) I bet the factory ends up redesigning the gas blocks without the rail, for the US market ( ie; probably just chopping them off). It would be too simple not to take advantage of, i would think. Edited February 18, 2011 by Mullet Man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 How many of you gents are going to do a conversion? Are they going to be untouched safe queens? Shooters "as-is"? Converted with all the (as many as 922 will allow) correct parts to clone a true 030? Move fcg forward, add pistol grip, replace stock. It's going to be a shooter, no safe queens or collectors items here. I'm buying it for what it is and adding the parts that work for me, not trying to clone a 030. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koljec 37 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I was invoice #54 if that means anything. Howdy neighbor. I'm 55. Which means as of about 1:30 this afternoon, just over 1/4 of them are spoken for... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koljec 37 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) Ugh, sorry for the back to back post. My bad. How many of you gents are going to do a conversion? Are they going to be untouched safe queens? Shooters "as-is"? Converted with all the (as many as 922 will allow) correct parts to clone a true 030? I not the sort of person to keep things behind glass -- guns, cars, whatever. So I see the trigger group conversion as very soon in the gun's future. But if I saw that these could fetch $2000+ NIB, I'd consider making a quick profit. I'm not the most experienced person here, but I suspect that, after March, the Saiga craziness might die down once inventories across the internet are replenished. But I'm also not sure what Legion USA intends to do. Looking at their website, it seems like a great new variety of Saigas could become available in the US. Looking at Legion's ruble pricing and Izhmash's, a lot of these models cost ~$1,000 before export/import. So $1,500 might not be far off the new norm for the decked-out Saigas.... Edited February 19, 2011 by Koljec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
busarider 23 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 My question is how would this shotgun handle low brass loads. I did not see any mention of a gas adjustment! I would hate to shell out that kind of money for the gun and it would not feed low brass. I talked to one of the reps and they confirmed the $1500 price tag. They said they were only getting about 200 or so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
towerofpower93 22 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) I ended up ordering one and asked Brian that exact question concerning low brass. He said that when they got together with the Russians to test fire their sample they went over every point which was robbing energy from the recoil (rough hammer/BCG interface, rivets from the top rail barely rubbing the BCG, etc.), did some minor filing and they got it run Federal bulk pack like a champ. Winchester white box had hiccups, but I believe the Federal bulk pack is the unofficial standard to see if it's running correctly on this forum. Supposedly the Russians are using real deal quality control on these 200, but I fully expect to have the internals polished up like I would any other S12 in order to get low brass to run 100%. My other 2 S12s run like raped apes and I see no reason why a few minutes of smooting and sanding on this one won't deliver the same results. Brian also stated that Piece of History Firearms is going to be their warranty provider due to their reputation with the AK platform. Took a look at their site and they do have some beautiful builds. I'm going to throw a 5.5mm poly folder on it upon arrival/conversion and use the dog shit out of it. No safe queens for me!!!! Eric Edited February 19, 2011 by towerofpower93 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
busarider 23 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Huh! So it is really designed for the heavy stuff only! I can see the validity of the design for for law enforcement and military because they will not be using bird shot any way. I think I will just stick to the regular S12. I can see the Version 30 and 40 trying to sell like those FN P90 and 2000 rifles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
setlab 11 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Huh! So it is really designed for the heavy stuff only! I can see the validity of the design for for law enforcement and military because they will not be using bird shot any way. I think I will just stick to the regular S12. I can see the Version 30 and 40 trying to sell like those FN P90 and 2000 rifles. Sounds like every other brand new saiga, your going to need to run high brass in it or polish the insides up first to run cheap stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I'm invoice #52. I'll most likely sit on it for several months to see if the market takes off. If not, then I'll do a full pistol grip conversion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
busarider 23 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Huh! So it is really designed for the heavy stuff only! I can see the validity of the design for for law enforcement and military because they will not be using bird shot any way. I think I will just stick to the regular S12. I can see the Version 30 and 40 trying to sell like those FN P90 and 2000 rifles. Sounds like every other brand new saiga, your going to need to run high brass in it or polish the insides up first to run cheap stuff. So what's the up side from the basic S12 that would justify a hefty $1000 extra? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heath_h49008 442 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Honestly, you can build a better fighting gun with the 109BHO, a JT magwell, and folding parts... but that gas system and top cover are very nice. It only needs a left side bolt handle, a better mag well and a better stock and conversion... wait... ummm Can we get some CNC monkeys to crank out that gas block and cover for less than $1000? I'm thinking we can. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
busarider 23 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I was considering one until I got the quote on it. I think that if I was going to shell out that kind of cash I would get something really cool and fun like a belt feed semiauto RPD for about $600 more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
setlab 11 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I was considering one until I got the quote on it. I think that if I was going to shell out that kind of cash I would get something really cool and fun like a belt feed semiauto RPD for about $600 more. Ya this is definitely not the gun for someone who doesn't want to put out the money for a tricked out saiga. Price up all the American add-ons that will bring up a standard U.S. saiga to the equivalent of this gun and the price will be close to the same, that's not even factoring in labor costs. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 What people seem to keep overlooking is the importability status... ONLY 200. Sure, anyone can have something hacked up and welded that may look like the 030 and play better. But you still don't have an original. I don't get why people are trying to directly compare aftermarket S-12s to the .030 import. It doesn't make any sense. If it's too much money for you, that's ok. No one is forcing you to spend it... Why hate? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I like all S12's so I'm all for getting one, but can someone explain why it is so much more? To me it looks like any other Saiga pretty much. Is it the gas system or is it mostly just the collectors aspect of it? Believe me I wish I were one of the ones getting one but I just don't understand why so much for an unconverted S12. Someone help me out. Please justify the price for me so I can have an excuse to get another Saiga. A couple months ago you could get 3 for that price. What am I missing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
busarider 23 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I guess this is one of those things I will just have to wait and see what happens. Kind of like the 1994 assault weapons ban or the housing market. People paid dearly for what you can get now for pretty reasonable prices. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Let's look at this from a more realistic point of view. Factory 19" Saiga 12: $650.00 to $700.00 Auto Plug: $46.00 Mag Well (not installed): $100.00 Stock (not installed): $85.00 LRBHO approx: $175.00 TOTAL approx:$1100.00 This does not include the top rail, gas block rail, flip up dust cover and installation. Now factor in that only 200 Russian originals are going to be imported. Win win. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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