corbin 621 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 I suspect some of us have had a few instances where we wanted to ask folks what their preffered method is for: Rapid mag reloads Tactical use of cover The best sling options for a particular use Load bearing equipment ideas Emergency medicine Left handed use Firearms use in and around vehicles Etc Do you think the forum would benefit from a section that would cater to these questions, or would the General Discussion area be good enough? Thoughts? 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jmzzl 146 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 Good idea. We are all prepared with guns and supplies, but they are nothing if we can't use them properly. We need to share and learn tactics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrmallek 53 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 Great idea - I value members opinions more than a bunch of mall ninjas playing dress up on some boards 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
schultze13 354 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 I think there should be one. There are some tactics that you would use with a S-12 that you would not use with a pump or a rifle. Also there are some tactice that can only be used on a AK based weapon either rifle or shotty that can not be used on any other platform, so I think this would be a GREAT IDEA!!!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuzzNectar 35 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 I think there should be one. There are some tactics that you would use with a S-12 that you would not use with a pump or a rifle. Also there are some tactice that can only be used on a AK based weapon either rifle or shotty that can not be used on any other platform, so I think this would be a GREAT IDEA!!!! ^^^^^this^^^^^ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theorangeplanet 968 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 I think there should be one. There are some tactics that you would use with a S-12 that you would not use with a pump or a rifle. Also there are some tactice that can only be used on a AK based weapon either rifle or shotty that can not be used on any other platform, so I think this would be a GREAT IDEA!!!! I agree... there is enough general info out there on other sites and forums but this would be the best place to pick brains on how to use the Saiga 12 more effectively. Hell, the S12 is the only shotgun that you can really provide suppressive fire with (that most of us will ever own), so, is that useful or wasting ammo? Should be discussed... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pony_express1973 183 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 I'm getting my first saiga tomorrow so that would be usefull to know these kind of things ... I'm still trying to figue out how to break it in and what gas setings to use for diffrent loads Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted May 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 I'm still trying to figue out how to break it in and what gas setings to use for diffrent loads Welcome to the forum, and to Saiga ownership. There's a decent amount of threads concerning gas setting in the Saiga 12 section. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heath_h49008 442 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 It's a very good idea. Too many people try to treat the S12 like a variation on a "normal" 12 gauge. IT IS NOT. I would be far better to understand what the weapon is. The S12, in a combat sense, is a carbine that shoots 12 gauge ammo, has a somewhat bulky/limited mag capacity, and very short range... The Saiga Specific vids that are out there right now are a joke. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 I say yes as there are plenty of folks on here that have had lots of time and money spent on them in regards to training whether it be military, law enforcement, or on their own dime. In addition to that, you have lots of practical experience on the forum from combat zones to the streets of this country. I'm all for learning and sharing what works and doesn't work whether it be tactics or gear. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heath_h49008 442 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 One issue is also one of the major benefits of our modifications... these are not consistent weapons platforms to work from. Mine has a folder, magwell, LRBHO with bolt release, and left side charging handle. Tactics I use for reloads, failures, and overall rate of fire are not even comparable to a stock Saiga 12/20/410. However, I think we can use various stickies and builds to give specific benefits of each modification someone might consider. It would help people choose which they want first, or not want at all. I would say we have 90% converted guns... of those 25-50% are folders... 5% of those have magwells.. 2% have left side charging handles.. 2% have Galil style handles. Very few have functioning LRBHOs and of those less than 50 have working bolt releases. Primary instruction. Basics of loading and reloading. Common failure drill. Center it around the converted S12 with aftermarket 10 rnd mags. We can find out what works best for gear... Mag pouches or clips... techniques for loading on closed bolt. Tac reloads. Patterning basics. BUCK AND BALL ROUNDS. I can't say enough good things about the guys who worked those gems out for the group. I would love to find a cheap source for the balls. I can afford a Lee Load-All, but I can't smelt lead in my apartment. A few more vids on why these are so good and step by step info on making them. I really like the idea guys. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 Might be interesting to have a tactics section. I have had great intentions of doing some basic info videos, but as usual, I have not been able to find the time. Perhaps the most important aspect to have an understanding of, initially, is how the shotgun patterns with the various shot loads which the user shoots through the gun. This will help determine patterning distance/penetration limitations of that particular shot shell. I am not a fan of using slugs for home/self defense. Can't beat a good pattern in a high stress crisis situation, especially at night or low light situations. Jack Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steveb327 13 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Heath wrote: Primary instruction. Basics of loading and reloading. Common failure drill. Center it around the converted S12 with aftermarket 10 rnd mags. We can find out what works best for gear... Mag pouches or clips... techniques for loading on closed bolt. Tac reloads. Patterning basics. ____________________ Heath, I've actually been working on a sizeable mag pouch project for a few months. Painfully waiting on my last 2 companies before posting a resource list. Actually got a few companies to make "specific" s12 pouches, believe it or not! Will post when done. Figured I'd put it in the gear section, although that's tragically thin and I can't seem to reply to the 1-2 posts that are in it, for some reason. May just put it in the "Mag Pouches" thread that goes back to 2005! Anyway, all outstanding topics I would benefit from immensely. Can't wait. I like the competition section, but not all that transfers outside the range, like IPSC. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YARP 300 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) We have a business member here that would probably be more then happy to share all of the things asked for here. He even made the only Saiga 12 fighting DVD that's on the market. His material is taken from all walks of life with a no bullshit approach. I have yet to take one of there courses (one of my goals for the summer) but I have taken a good look at much of there written and video material and it is the next level aimed at the civilian (instead of some guy trying to make you a mall ninja). Don't know if he (or mods) would want us posting in his sub-forum but it's a good question to ask. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/forum/78-suarez-international-usa-inc/ Edited May 13, 2011 by YARP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 well, I can tell ya one thing....there is a strange little law in Florida that prohibits "paramilitary training" throughout the state. ....so....Ive wondered since coming across that little tidbit, what that encompasses, and how many more states have this little bullshit gem of a law on thier books.... and as with all legal issues and quotes, I no longer am pursuing them for the general public for free. look it up though, its in there...you guys can figure out what it actually means and is defining.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
magsite20 1,664 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heath_h49008 442 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 We have a business member here that would probably be more then happy to share all of the things asked for here. He even made the only Saiga 12 fighting DVD that's on the market. His material is taken from all walks of life with a no bullshit approach. I have yet to take one of there courses (one of my goals for the summer) but I have taken a good look at much of there written and video material and it is the next level aimed at the civilian (instead of some guy trying to make you a mall ninja). Don't know if he (or mods) would want us posting in his sub-forum but it's a good question to ask. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/forum/78-suarez-international-usa-inc/ That particular group was telling other forum members how they would be flown to Columbia for a duel to the death, or ambushed locally, and was the source of the aforementioned Saiga video. It's on youtube for any who care. I understand he pays his ad fees, but somehow I think we can do better with an open forum and real professionals like Jack Travers, and some of the equipment suppliers here. It's a shame our "Tactics" source on the board has burned so many bridges, but we just have to live with it. One of the guys who works with the Nutnfancy Project apparently builds S12s as a business. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a forum member. That might be a very good way to get ideas out and tested in outdoor, rolling-in-the-sand, run and gun fashion. I'll double check his name and see if I can find him here. That would be a great guy to flesh out ideas with. As for the "Para-military" issue, the S12 is a 12gauge AK47 that was partially built in the garage. You really can't do much to make it MORE ugly to people outside of the gun culture. A tactics section might even help us work out good tricks to use it for hunting while staying legal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 I suspect some of us have had a few instances where we wanted to ask folks what their preffered method is for: Rapid mag reloads Tactical use of cover The best sling options for a particular use Load bearing equipment ideas Emergency medicine Left handed use Firearms use in and around vehicles Etc Do you think the forum would benefit from a section that would cater to these questions, or would the General Discussion area be good enough? Thoughts? Sounds like a great idea, IMO. Your idea has my vote. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62 Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) BUCK AND BALL ROUNDS. I can't say enough good things about the guys who worked those gems out for the group. I would love to find a cheap source for the balls. I can afford a Lee Load-All, but I can't smelt lead in my apartment. A few more vids on why these are so good and step by step info on making them. I've bought a bunch ammo from them with no complaints. I've used Centurion slugs but not the buck and ball. Edited May 25, 2011 by Juggernaut Removed Non Contributor link (See rule 1c) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lcswj 0 Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) I'm in agreement with the majority of the aforementioned comments. Having a forum that addresses the unique characteristics of the S12 would be a good thing. Currently it seems that they are under attack by legislators and having a competent forum as to their tactical and practical applications would be a good thing. Would also be kind of cool to see S12's start to venture into other shooting sports. How much of a trip would it be to see a Patrick Flanigan type tossing up and busting 12 clays before they hit the ground. Would give the gun a more diversified application than tactical use only. To be honest, the S12 is only recently being noticed as a serious shotgun for competition. Other sports applications really haven't been explored that much. A tactics forum has the ability to push the ideas of what an S12 is really capable of. I think that tactical only/combat application makes it easy for legislators to inappropriately target them as a "military/combat weapon"... "that has no other practical sporting application other than antipersonel use" blah, blah, blah. in the end, its a damn shotgun! WTF! Edited May 23, 2011 by lcswj Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 well, I can tell ya one thing....there is a strange little law in Florida that prohibits "paramilitary training" throughout the state. But there are plenty of high end shooting courses throughout the state that are centered on gunfighting period, not shooting at round paper bullseyes. Paramilitary training in the state's terms most likely encompasses more than just firearms. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heath_h49008 442 Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 well, I can tell ya one thing....there is a strange little law in Florida that prohibits "paramilitary training" throughout the state. But there are plenty of high end shooting courses throughout the state that are centered on gunfighting period, not shooting at round paper bullseyes. Paramilitary training in the state's terms most likely encompasses more than just firearms. I think you're safe as long as you don't have a Batista era Cuban flag over the range and transports standing by... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DonaldDuck 9 Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 I suspect some of us have had a few instances where we wanted to ask folks what their preffered method is for: Firearms use in and around vehicles Thoughts? Yo! First ya grab da ghat from undah da seat you know what I'm sayin... The ones wit da beam are da bomb! Highpoint comes wit da beam fah less than 200 bones, you know what I'm sayin... Now that you got da gat, ya grab ya clip & shit, ya know what I'm sayin'... Now load da clip in dat shit & have ya boy black out the whip's lights, ya know what I'm sayin... Creep up on dem mothafuckah's crib & just start blassin. Show them mothafuckahs what tiiiiiime it is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heath_h49008 442 Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Honestly? Sounds great! http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=61284&title=drive-by-shooting-school Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkbit 109 Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Pie those corners! Mmmmmmm, pie. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heath_h49008 442 Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) For those interested, these guys are good, and it's free to watch the vids. Look under "firearms" and they have a whole section on the Saiga 12. Edited May 25, 2011 by Juggernaut Removed Non Contributor link (See rule 1c) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 We have a business member here that would probably be more then happy to share all of the things asked for here. He even made the only Saiga 12 fighting DVD that's on the market. His material is taken from all walks of life with a no bullshit approach. I have yet to take one of there courses (one of my goals for the summer) but I have taken a good look at much of there written and video material and it is the next level aimed at the civilian (instead of some guy trying to make you a mall ninja). Don't know if he (or mods) would want us posting in his sub-forum but it's a good question to ask. http://forum.saiga-1...tional-usa-inc/ That particular group was telling other forum members how they would be flown to Columbia for a duel to the death, or ambushed locally, and was the source of the aforementioned Saiga video. It's on youtube for any who care. I understand he pays his ad fees, but somehow I think we can do better with an open forum and real professionals like Jack Travers, and some of the equipment suppliers here. It's a shame our "Tactics" source on the board has burned so many bridges, but we just have to live with it. One of the guys who works with the Nutnfancy Project apparently builds S12s as a business. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a forum member. That might be a very good way to get ideas out and tested in outdoor, rolling-in-the-sand, run and gun fashion. I'll double check his name and see if I can find him here. That would be a great guy to flesh out ideas with. As for the "Para-military" issue, the S12 is a 12gauge AK47 that was partially built in the garage. You really can't do much to make it MORE ugly to people outside of the gun culture. A tactics section might even help us work out good tricks to use it for hunting while staying legal. You didn't add any fuel to that fire now did ya... Shame you got to run your mouth about good people and pick a fight in the first place. If you were able to maintain composure from the beginning the whole incident never would have happened.. I do not think ANY SI Instructor said anything of the sort to you, (Perhaps a passionate W.T. member?) yet you spread more lies and negative propaganda about them? typical... (placing blame on the "Group" would be like blaming this forum for anti cop violence due to your postings.. You DARE SPEAK of unjust cops and can't even let a man run a GOOD buisness AFTER he has paid his debt without attacking and passing judgement on his character? ) You pick a fight and cry when you reap it... Regardless, the incident has been removed from public view. 7 day suspension for trolling a buisness member and posting non con links. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 We have a business member here that would probably be more then happy to share all of the things asked for here. He even made the only Saiga 12 fighting DVD that's on the market. His material is taken from all walks of life with a no bullshit approach. I have yet to take one of there courses (one of my goals for the summer) but I have taken a good look at much of there written and video material and it is the next level aimed at the civilian (instead of some guy trying to make you a mall ninja). Don't know if he (or mods) would want us posting in his sub-forum but it's a good question to ask. http://forum.saiga-1...tional-usa-inc/ That particular group was telling other forum members how they would be flown to Columbia for a duel to the death, or ambushed locally, and was the source of the aforementioned Saiga video. It's on youtube for any who care. I understand he pays his ad fees, but somehow I think we can do better with an open forum and real professionals like Jack Travers, and some of the equipment suppliers here. It's a shame our "Tactics" source on the board has burned so many bridges, but we just have to live with it. One of the guys who works with the Nutnfancy Project apparently builds S12s as a business. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a forum member. That might be a very good way to get ideas out and tested in outdoor, rolling-in-the-sand, run and gun fashion. I'll double check his name and see if I can find him here. That would be a great guy to flesh out ideas with. As for the "Para-military" issue, the S12 is a 12gauge AK47 that was partially built in the garage. You really can't do much to make it MORE ugly to people outside of the gun culture. A tactics section might even help us work out good tricks to use it for hunting while staying legal. You didn't add any fuel to that fire now did ya... Shame you got to run your mouth about good people and pick a fight in the first place. If you were able to maintain composure from the beginning the whole incident never would have happened.. I do not think ANY SI Instructor said anything of the sort to you, (Perhaps a passionate W.T. member?) yet you spread more lies and negative propaganda about them? typical... (placing blame on the "Group" would be like blaming this forum for anti cop violence due to your postings.. You DARE SPEAK of unjust cops and can't even let a man run a GOOD buisness AFTER he has paid his debt without attacking and passing judgement on his character? ) You pick a fight and cry when you reap it... Regardless, the incident has been removed from public view. 7 day suspension for trolling a buisness member and posting non con links. Go Juggs! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bohound 281 Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) Ok, so anyway... I think it's a GREAT idea Corbin! Some of us actually DO go out and train, simply for sporting purposes, of course. I mean, it's not like we're practicing "rolling t's" as a team, or ballistic breaching with a wall flood.... Leave that stuff for the "mall ninjas"... Right? In the meantime, yeah- especially stuff like LBE's and manual of arms stuff. That would be real fine Corbin. Edited May 25, 2011 by bohound Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YARP 300 Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Thanks Juggs, just noticed that. I left it alone for obvious reasons. It'd be nice to see more demonstration/operation of the Saiga platform in particular. Bohound-I once saw post on another forum about a dude that wanted to use his Glock on sharks....under water. I love mall ninjas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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