Long Island Man Arrested For Defending Home With AK-47

[yakdung 2,926]

Here we go again. Result when liberal politicians are running the show. I really feel sorry for anyone that has to live in New York.

 

http://newyork.cbslo...ome-with-ak-47/

 

Yakdung

[kdbutler 563]

Police determined Grier had the gun legally. He has no criminal record. And so he was not charged for the weapon.

 

So lemme get this straight: In NY state you can legally own an "AK-47 assault rifle", you just cannot use it to defend home and property from people behaving in a threatening manner? Do I have that right?

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Police determined Grier had the gun legally. He has no criminal record. And so he was not charged for the weapon.

 

So lemme get this straight: In NY state you can legally own an "AK-47 assault rifle", you just cannot use it to defend home and property from people behaving in a threatening manner? Do I have that right?

 

Yes, correct, since it's an "assault rifle" it can only be used for assault, and is thus not valid for self/home defense

 

In all this, what I really don't understand, is how even with the politicians in charge, this happens. Sure the backwards politicians would rather have the laws set so that 20+ "gang bangers" threatening a guy and his family walk free while the guy who tried to defend himself is facing jail time, but what are the cops doing about this?

 

I mean really, the laws are only strict as the manner in which they are enforced, and with the second amendment now ruled an individual right for self defense in Heller and applied to the states through McDonald, how can the cops bring themselves to arrest a guy doing what the Supreme Court of the USA says he has the right to? It shines very poorly on the officers themselves, most of all, for continuing to enforce such bogus laws against the will of the highest court in the land IMO.

[RobRez 1,895]

Around here the sheriff probably would show up and say "What's the matter with you, Son?? You missed!"

[DogMan 2,343]

The type of weapon is totally irrelevant here. They got him for firing the rounds when he hadn't seen a weapon displayed by any of the perps. I think he still had good reason to fear for his life and his families life. I also think he has a good chance of beating this, but this is New York so.....I'm not betting money on it.

Edited September 8, 2010 by DogMan

[chevyman097 2,579]

Oh I love the added evil picture of the AK 47s lined up to look all evil with the 30rnd mags. SO terrible to defend urself with such a weapon!. Stupid humans! guns are fucking evil! use rocks! you bastards they are less evil when defending urself again armed thugs with guns.!

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

I tell ya this...

If this was the MS-13 gang he feared, he & his family are now at their mercy.

Locked up he is definitely on their turf and his family is without him.

If he is out on bail, I hope he has another AK and is smart enough to move.

 

20+ gang bangers trespassing on my premises, refusing to leave, acting aggressively, threatening your and your family's lives, is in my book a "I feared for my/family's life/lives situation".

Tough call, what do you do? Stand your ground waiting for the police and hope it doesn't escalate? Shoot the first ones to get within 21', say they were reaching as for weapons?

 

Thank God, here in Alabama, we have Castle Doctrine.

[555JM 10]

Another reason not to convert your Saiga if you live in NY. You'd think Grier had all those Aks stacked up in his bedroom from the photo.

 

Damn CBS and NY too.

[G O B 3,516]

SO: If they had a weapon he would have been OK. BUT 30-40 against 1 he cannot defend himself because they were "unarmed"! He would be equally dead under the law, but has no right to use an equalizer to defend himself? HOW STUPID ARE THESE PEOPLE!

[peaches 4]

i live in NY an not far from uniondale, where this occurred. this is really a sham, 20+ gang members on your property, telling you that they will kill you an your family, an your the bad guy !

 

is this not ass backwards ?

[chevyman097 2,579]

Thank God I live in Texas....

 

How do they really know some of these thugs werent armed? or even fired shots unless the police witnessed the event is what I wonder.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

Everyone involved is lucky that the assault weapon didn't just start shooting them all at random with cop killer bullets that were specially loaded and cursed by Satanic-Nazi-Christian-Capitalist-Militia-Members.

 

Because then the assault weapon's accomplice in domestic terrorism, an SUV, would have heard and viciously run over any survivors and there would be a lot of dead innocent members of the socially and legally challenged non-profit street organization known as MS-13.

[superA 289]

[getitat 609]

Hello

 

Here in Texas the cops would be a little pissed about all the paperwork over the bodies, but relieved to have a dozen or so bangers off the streets. Well, once the M.E. cleaned 'em up out of the yard, I mean.

I imagine the weapon would get temporarily confiscated, though.

 

I've always maintained that the edumacation about the Castle Doctrine (yeah, I know it doesn't apply to the progressive pussies in New York) needs to happen in the jails and juvie's, not the CCW classes exclusively.

I'm thinkin' that would be a very positive-type activity for the LULAC and NAACP race-baiter type folks.

 

We're the ones on the SAFE end of the weapons, those ignorant thug bastids generally don't have a clue what kind of door they're opening when they march on your property with they homies.

 

We may be a lot more prepared for them than they are for us.....

 

-guido

[my762buzz 141]

Thank God I live in Texas....

 

How do they really know some of these thugs werent armed? or even fired shots unless the police witnessed the event is what I wonder.

 

Texas is awesome.

 

I can't see the weapon in the video. It might have been a saiga and they are just calling it the universal layman term AK47.

 

The cops and reporters called vang's rifle he used to kill 6 hunters back in 2004 a saiga sks. They never seem to get it right.

 

Some probably were armed and even if he managed to physically keep them out the hard core MS-13 idiots would likely try and burn the home down.

[Bvamp 604]

Love NY law. Plus, you have the LI law in effect here -

 

First, you have the NY law - you have the burden of retreat, and obvious initial threat of grave injury to yourself or someone else. No weapon, this didnt happen. charges.

 

which brings you to the LI law that will get him - it is illegal to discharge any rifle on LI. even a 22 is illegal to target shoot with (yeh yeh I hear ya)

 

so..

 

he didnt have the right to pull a trigger, especially admitting a warning shot or shots were fired, so there was no grave threat of injury to person or property

 

AND

 

because of that, he has discharged a rifle on LI illegally.

 

 

....so, hes gonna get some other charge, and pay fines.

 

 

O well.

 

 

dont pull it if you arent going to USE IT!

 

 

sorry guys, I have zero sympathy here. He shoulda used it as a club, or been struck first.

 

Then yer talking.....

 

 

 

this same bullshit law for everything one does ALSO (keep in mind here) makes it so those idiots that tried to jump the guy would go to jail for popping rounds off into the guy's front lawn or across the street the other way.....so they aint all bad.

 

 

Know your laws, and use them to your ADVANTAGE.

[Bvamp 604]

The cops and reporters called vang's rifle he used to kill 6 hunters back in 2004 a saiga sks. They never seem to get it right.

 

 

a couple interesting points from that whole matter -

 

there were an IP that was a member here for about a year and didnt come back from that exact area of vang's residence after the shootings, at least the 3 or 4 months I kept watching for it at that time, when I staffing here at the time.

 

there was a couple of .gov IPs that came here right when it happened (the cops informed themselves what a saiga was, it looked like to me at the time)

 

and vang was in violation of 922r due to an unconverted saiga having a bullet guide and 20 round magazine in it. exactly what I was waiting to have to point out if it turned out the guy learned how to mod the gun from here....it was clearly put on the site at the time by several posters, and was something some members and staff here kept making sure was mentioned in threads about modifying these guns way back before most of you reading this were here and that info was scarce across the internet. yes, I was covering the boss's ass and mine as well.....fortunately that never had to happen, though. 922r and the fact that this site made SURE people knew about it was what would have protected us and the site at the time from any legal matters....yehp, you read that right!!! (no he was never charged with an illegal weapon on 922r as far as i know, and that woulda been a good time to do it)

 

go figure....

[Shandlanos 1,470]

I'm with Bvamp on this one. Firing warning shots in a city was just pretty damn dumb. If you're out in the country, it might be acceptable. In the city, with lots of people around, he really may have been putting people's lives in danger. I'd be more comfortable with the whole situation if he had responded to the verbal threats by shooting the person making the threats. At least he would have discharged the weapon to disable an imminent threat. I would certainly consider a likely-armed thug refusing to leave my property and threatening my life to be an imminent threat.

[DogMan 2,343]

I'm with Bvamp on this one. Firing warning shots in a city was just pretty damn dumb. If you're out in the country, it might be acceptable. In the city, with lots of people around, he really may have been putting people's lives in danger. I'd be more comfortable with the whole situation if he had responded to the verbal threats by shooting the person making the threats. At least he would have discharged the weapon to disable an imminent threat. I would certainly consider a likely-armed thug refusing to leave my property and threatening my life to be an imminent threat.

 

You can't be serious. Really? Shoot the guy? You can argue all you want about firing the warning shots but apparently they had the desired effect and the homeowner isn't in jail for murder.

[paprotective 362]

This is seriously a mess all together. he was wrong. call 911 and hold them at bay with the SKS.

 

If they continue approach WARN THEM LOUDLY.

 

If they were to have picked up a piece of wood or any weapon then blast the one holding it.

 

self defense. IMHO

 

 

Al

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I'm with Bvamp on this one. Firing warning shots in a city was just pretty damn dumb. If you're out in the country, it might be acceptable. In the city, with lots of people around, he really may have been putting people's lives in danger. I'd be more comfortable with the whole situation if he had responded to the verbal threats by shooting the person making the threats. At least he would have discharged the weapon to disable an imminent threat. I would certainly consider a likely-armed thug refusing to leave my property and threatening my life to be an imminent threat.

 

You can't be serious. Really? Shoot the guy? You can argue all you want about firing the warning shots but apparently they had the desired effect and the homeowner isn't in jail for murder.

 

That's exactly what I said on another board that this article was posted on.

 

While I don't condone warning shots, or firing into the ground in a city neighborhood.........this guy and his family are still alive and unhurt, possibly because of the warning shots he fired into the ground. The fact that he broke a law in doing so, is a moot point, IMO. I'd rather deal with charges of illegally discharging a firearm, etc, etc........than possibly be dead, or have a family member killed.

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

Not much to say - glad I live in Texas. Why four warning shots? One if desired then you die Every state in the union should have castle doctrine IMHO. One shot would be a courtesy.

 

1911

[SOPMOD 254]

Not much to say - glad I live in Texas. Why four warning shots? One if desired then you die Every state in the union should have castle doctrine IMHO. One shot would be a courtesy.

 

1911

 

 

Hmmm,interesting that for the price of a crap hole with MS-13 gangbangers in the yard in Long Island you can buy a nice home in a good neighborhood in any of the Castle Doctrine states. In the states I have resided in you might even have the benefit of calling very ballsy and well trained/armed LEOs that would be more than willing to "mix it up" with some MS-13 tough guys.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

 

Hmmm,interesting that for the price of a crap hole with MS-13 gangbangers in the yard in Long Island you can buy a nice home in a good neighborhood in any of the Castle Doctrine states.

 

I visited North Carolina earlier this summer and honestly could not believe my eyes. Kept seeing signs for decent looking little pre-fab homes at ~$29,000 plus whatever the cost of land is. So I am guessing they can get a house down there for like $50k? It's hilarious because you can't even THINK about buying a little 2 bedroom Cape Cod for under $230k where I live....at post crash prices.......and there's high rise housing projects full of shitheads like the ones mentioned above only 3-4 miles from here

Edited September 20, 2010 by Classy Kalashnikov

[Paulyski 2,227]

.............use rocks! you bastards they are less evil when defending urself again armed thugs with guns.!

You must be Palestinian?

They think rocks > guns > tanks.

 

SO: If they had a weapon he would have been OK. BUT 30-40 against 1 he cannot defend himself because they were "unarmed"! He would be equally dead under the law, but has no right to use an equalizer to defend himself? HOW STUPID ARE THESE PEOPLE!

If that happened here in Portland Or. he would have been screwed too.

But if he had stayed on his porch & waited for them to advance & THEN shot THEM, he's good to go, because he proves that he felt his life was in danger & he was stopping the threat.

Funny how these things work.

[G O B 3,516]

.............use rocks! you bastards they are less evil when defending urself again armed thugs with guns.!

You must be Palestinian?

They think rocks > guns > tanks.

 

SO: If they had a weapon he would have been OK. BUT 30-40 against 1 he cannot defend himself because they were "unarmed"! He would be equally dead under the law, but has no right to use an equalizer to defend himself? HOW STUPID ARE THESE PEOPLE!

If that happened here in Portland Or. he would have been screwed too.

But if he had stayed on his porch & waited for them to advance & THEN shot THEM, he's good to go, because he proves that he felt his life was in danger & he was stopping the threat.

Funny how these things work.

He would have been screwed here in MD too. We can use whatever force necessary INSIDE our home. We can open carry on our property - but DO NOT shoot outside your home!

[my762buzz 141]

But if he had stayed on his porch & waited for them to advance & THEN shot THEM, he's good to go, because he proves that he felt his life was in danger & he was stopping the threat.

Funny how these things work.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15199221/

Sometimes no matter what you do ....

 

 

Fish: I looked out and I could see the top of a car.

 

At the head of the trail, he says he saw a man camped by his car with two dogs.

 

Fish: His head picks up, the dogs alert. And I just raised my hand, you know, just to let him know that I’m just a hiker going through here.

 

Larson: So you wave at him?

 

Fish: Yeah. I raised my hand. I just you know, like, “I’m here. I’m a guy—I’m friendly.” So I get to about right in here, and when I look up, here come these dogs running very quickly, fangs showing, barking, running right at me.

 

Larson: Just these 30 yards, right here?

 

Fish: Yeah, just coming right here and at that point I’m yelling at him, “Hey control your dogs!”

 

But, Fish says, the man didn’t try to stop the dogs. Fish always carries a pistol with him when he hikes, he says to protect him from wild animals. He says he pulled out a 10 mm gun he had with him that day—and fired a warning shot into the ground.

 

Fish: One dog went off to the left and stopped right over there by the tree there. The other one went off into the brush there.

 

The dogs were out of the way, but Fish says the man began charging down the hill at full speed.

 

Fish: I yell at him, “I didn’t shoot your dogs” or “I didn’t hurt your dogs.” And he’s yelling back at me as he’s coming, he says, in a kind of strange voice “I’m going to hurt you. I’m going to kill you,” and he’s swinging, kind of punching at me. I’m yelling at him. “I didn’t shoot your dogs. No. Don’t. Get back. Leave me alone. No!”

 

Fish says he feared for his life.

 

Fish: One minute I’m just walking through the woods, oblivious to him or anything else. And the next minute I’ve got two dogs barking and snarling, trying to bite me, and an angry man following right after them, yelling that he’s going to get me, going to kill me, swinging his fists.

 

Larson: And you’re convinced this guy actually was going to kill you?

 

Fish: Yeah.

 

Fish fired three shots. The man fell to the ground.

 

Larson: When he falls, does he say anything?

 

Fish: No. Never did.

 

Larson: Do you say anything?

 

Fish: Yes. I—I—for the first five seconds or so, I was angry. But obviously, he was hurt. So after about five seconds of losing my cool and then getting angry at him, you know, then I tried to do what I could to help him.

 

Fish says he put his backpack under the man’s head, and covered him with a blanket, as seen in the sheriff’s department video.

 

He says he then tried to use his cell phone to call 911 — but couldn’t get reception in the remote wilderness.

 

He hiked to the nearest highway, and managed to flag down a car. The driver used the “On-Star” system in his car to call for help.

 

Paramedics soon arrived at the scene of the shooting and found the man dead.

 

The father of seven with no criminal record was now questioned by police late into the night and the following morning.

 

Fish says he fully cooperated with the authorities.

 

Fish: I didn’t say I’m not gonna talk to you. I want an attorney.

 

The lead sheriff’s detective on the case told the media he thought Fish had acted in self-defense.

 

Larson: Were you thinking, “This is all over now?”

 

Fish: Yes. We thought it was.

 

Larson: It wasn’t.

 

Fish: No.

 

 

They were two strangers, whose lives tragically crossed on this beautiful, peaceful hiking trail. To many, it seemed like a clear case of self-defense: a family man with no criminal record and no reason whatsoever to shoot another man he didn’t even know.

 

But, when word of the shooting got out, many in this area began to come to the dead man’s defense, saying that Harold Fish should be prosecuted for murder.

 

Arizona’s Pine Canyon trail is a rugged beauty—a difficult hike beneath a peaceful ridgeline. But the silence of the trail was shattered by gunfire one day in 2004, and only one man was left to tell his side of what happened.

Edited September 23, 2010 by my762buzz

[Paulyski 2,227]

[uzitiger 193]

If 20 members of the MS-13 gang were coming at me I would also use my Saiga to defend my home and family. If he hadn't done that, he and his family would have been dead or hurt badly and sexually assaulted. I don't understand the cops in the New York area, their behavior is like the British who arrest people for self defense. This is what Saigas are made for either the rifles or shotguns with ten round magazine loaded with buckshot.