voonman 133 Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 It uses a AR10 Lower with proprietary shotgun rounds 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Boba Debt 350 Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I laugh when someone talks about something as if it never exsited before. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JESS1344 508 Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 GUYS, "proprietary shotgun rounds" YOU KIDDIN' ME, YOU CAN'T HARDLY FIND THE REGULAR SHIT, AND THEY WANNA GO "PROPRIETARY"? I'D BE A-GIVIN' THAT SOME SERIOUS RE-THINK. JESS1344 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Proprietary calibers are always a joke until someone makes one stick. They aren't the first to try AR10 either. All it takes is one major military contract. Weird that they did all that and neglected doublestacks after developing rimless ammo. The funny thing is that most of the military spec 12 ga ammo is loaded well within 20 ga capacity and pressure. 20 Ga would fit. It would also do the job they are trying to do. I think they are trying to overcome a mental block, more than a performance criteria. people believe in 9 pellet OOB out of a 12, and no matter what you do to acheive the objectives nor how well it peforms, people still choose the old stand by. I think shotguns would get a lot more options if we adopted a rimless standard and defined a few more dimensions and pressure impulse times. That said, no one has offered something enough better and enough more versatile to overcome the awesome array of choices and existing components for 12 ga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigj480 203 Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) I guess they did the proprietary ammo thing to make the bolt work in a basically standard AR upper. If they had kept the rim they would have to redesign the upper. My personal opinion is that if you are going to cut corners rather than making it take standard ammo, expect it to be a sales failure. That said, AR guys don't seem to mind paying more for ammo that performs much like cheaper rounds (300blk vs 7.62x39), so who knows. All these multimillion dollar AR manufacturers and no one has done it right, it's strange. Edited January 22, 2013 by RollaJ420 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socom688 217 Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 This guy is kind of a douche and this whole idea sucks with proprietary rounds. I guess this company doesn't know that our beloved S12s have been around for 18 + years. "12 gauge shotgun, magazine fed on familiar platform" Last time I checked I've been shooting one of those for a couple years now Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dayofruin 425 Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Omg a mag fed, semi auto 12g!!! On a familiar platform. Who'd have thought such a thing were possible!? The design of the shell isn't bad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aka_mythos 35 Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I think shotguns would get a lot more options if we adopted a rimless standard and defined a few more dimensions and pressure impulse times. That said, no one has offered something enough better and enough more versatile to overcome the awesome array of choices and existing components for 12 ga. Amen. Its kinda the double edged sword of the venerable 12ga... the lack of defined characteristics allow a particular versatility and ruggedness, but hold it back because there is some sacrifce in consistency. Shell to shell a good amount of variation is allowed to exist. As we all know this has effected the reliability of Saigas which require us to throw on expensive hardware to mitigate those inconsistencies. With a greater standardization of dimensions, tolerances, and internal pressure semi-auto shotguns become more consistent with less effort. This thing reminds of an idea I had a while ago that someone should make a rimless 12ga shell. Where the plastic husk is the same basic piece, allowing all the same loading, but where the base is replaced with one that is dimensionally that of a 20ga, that flares out to mate with plastic husk. Thus allowing ease of manufacturability, for companies already producing shotguns in both gauges. The base would likely have to be reinforced, so you wouldn't change the volume of metal in the base just its distribution. That it would have more tightly defined load characteristics and dimensions. To achieve higher pressure loads when the length is restrictred it would be achieved by using more robust plastics in the husk. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvhanh20 1,052 Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Their headed in the right direction as far a the feeding goes, and AR design is always a good bet, but unless the can get a large part of the industries to follow thay are shit out of luck! My hat goes off to them with their design and the effort! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvhanh20 1,052 Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I laugh when someone talks about something as if it never exsited before. Well you certainly had a few people laughing with this one! lol 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raidersfan_5544 57 Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 ^^^LOL...I remember that. One of his better ones I think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leadsled 40 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) Every round is a proprietary round until others decide to manufacture it or military adopts it.. .308WIN, .223REM, etc, etc, etc. I think it's a brilIiant idea. I hope it takes off. I can live with the rim of today's shell, just get rid of the flat face!!!!!! Why can't someone make a conical (round nose) shotgun shell for box magazine fed guns?!?!?!? The Russians didn't even think of that when developing the S12. They made a metal hull. Edited January 31, 2013 by leadsled 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrBoomstick 16 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) i Hope it takes off, its only propriatary untill its adoped and i'll bet you can find that with many popular rounds. I wouldn't be suprised to see a double stack released if the platform takes off though pricing and their ability to get the guns and ammo out there for use in all markets will be the hurdle thye need to overcome. Edited January 31, 2013 by MrBoomstick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 This concept should have happened around 1900 or so when most other cartridges were being updated to rimless autoloader specs. Neat idea, but I absolutely HATE the word proprietary when applied to gun stuff.. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Use a 12ga brass shell, with a round nose projectile that protrudes from the front of the shell, and a good solid taper crimp. Winchester did something like that in the early 1900s, in limited numbers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casp 119 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) This guy is kind of a douche and this whole idea sucks with proprietary rounds. I guess this company doesn't know that our beloved S12s have been around for 18 + years. "12 gauge shotgun, magazine fed on familiar platform" Last time I checked I've been shooting one of those for a couple years now Speak for yourself. My familiar platform is the AR, not the AK, and I've been waiting for something like this to exist for years. I would like it better if it were DGI instead of short-stroke, but I'm still sold. (Remind me again why I'm a member here?) Proprietary ammo is a huge gamble but I hope they pull it off. Molding the whole shell out of plastic should help keep initial production cost down, I would think, and it isn't like that hasn't been done with standard 12ga shells before. Edit: I'm a lot more interested in this than I ever was in the MKA-1919. Edited January 31, 2013 by Caspian Sea Monster 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
misterT 174 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I remember somthing like that over 20 years ago that shot regular 12GA rounds I believe it was made by Armilite but they were $2000! I wanted one SOOOO bad but that was way to much for me. Thats why when I saw the Saiga 12 I HAD to have one and still lovin it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 This is really cool but as misterT said, I hope they're not $2000+ and take ammo that is $1 a round. Now if they flood the market with inexpensive ammo that could attract buyers especially if you can't reload the hulls. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
filthygovemploye 64 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 they have a phone# listed on their site, anyone tried to ask em what the msrp will be??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 This guy is kind of a douche and this whole idea sucks with proprietary rounds. I guess this company doesn't know that our beloved S12s have been around for 18 + years. "12 gauge shotgun, magazine fed on familiar platform" Last time I checked I've been shooting one of those for a couple years now Speak for yourself. My familiar platform is the AR, not the AK, and I've been waiting for something like this to exist for years. I would like it better if it were DGI instead of short-stroke, but I'm still sold. (Remind me again why I'm a member here?) Proprietary ammo is a huge gamble but I hope they pull it off. Molding the whole shell out of plastic should help keep initial production cost down, I would think, and it isn't like that hasn't been done with standard 12ga shells before. Edit: I'm a lot more interested in this than I ever was in the MKA-1919. Is it safe to say that the 1919 flopped? I think that is a reasonable conclusion. I don't see this being much more successful than the 1919. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 This guy is kind of a douche and this whole idea sucks with proprietary rounds. I guess this company doesn't know that our beloved S12s have been around for 18 + years. "12 gauge shotgun, magazine fed on familiar platform" Last time I checked I've been shooting one of those for a couple years now Speak for yourself. My familiar platform is the AR, not the AK, and I've been waiting for something like this to exist for years. I would like it better if it were DGI instead of short-stroke, but I'm still sold. (Remind me again why I'm a member here?) Proprietary ammo is a huge gamble but I hope they pull it off. Molding the whole shell out of plastic should help keep initial production cost down, I would think, and it isn't like that hasn't been done with standard 12ga shells before. Edit: I'm a lot more interested in this than I ever was in the MKA-1919. Is it safe to say that the 1919 flopped? I think that is a reasonable conclusion. I don't see this being much more successful than the 1919. I'm not sure the 1919 flopped. My favorite local shop would sell them and if it had really flopped we'd have seen them at CDNN for $399 or something like that. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I'm seeing more and more Mk 1919 shotguns at 3-gun matches. Some rival very high dollar Saiga-12 raceguns in gunsmith modifications and run exceptionally well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
menace667 194 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 My fear is the ammo. Much like the Beowulf .50 in proprietary ammo usage it limits the platform immensely. When Alexander arms released the patent on the 6.5 grendel it gained availability and popularity almost overnight, but they are holding the beowulf tight to the chest which makes it hard to get and more of a novelty than a must have. I live next to Jacksonville Florida which has a population over 1,000,000 and not a single gun store stocks .50 beowulf ammo with any consistency so I can not see this being any different. Sad too because I would get one if they were reasonably priced compared to other uppers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Come to think of it, CMMG at the 2009 Shot Show was considering marketing an AR-10 type 12 guage, box mag-fed shotgun similar to the RAS 12, but for whatever reason never put it into production. Its possible the final retail cost would have induced cardiac problems . http://www.defensereview.com/cmmg-gas-pistonop-rod-driven-semi-auto-ar-shotgun-box-mag-fed/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
filthygovemploye 64 Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 well they were supposed to be out by now... I remember somthing like that over 20 years ago that shot regular 12GA rounds I believe it was made by Armilite but they were $2000! I wanted one SOOOO bad but that was way to much for me. Thats why when I saw the Saiga 12 I HAD to have one and still lovin it. got any links to that old version mistert?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 I'm not sure the 1919 flopped. My favorite local shop would sell them and if it had really flopped we'd have seen them at CDNN for $399 or something like that. Not everything in CDNN flopped, that's how some of us got into Saigas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 I cast revive!! Here is a new armalite branded sar shorty http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UIb5p4wgoGk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DUIb5p4wgoGks And her is the original mentioned above Ar-17 http://www.nramuseum.org/the-museum/the-galleries/the-new-prosperity/case-44-the-mother-of-invention-cartridge-technology/armalite-ar-17-golden-gun-shotgun.aspx Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Nemo 882 Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 My idea for a new shotshell....... .50 BMG with the neck removed. Should feed in double stack magazines and can even be belt fed! Size would be maybe about a 14 gauge bore. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 I thought of that too. Keep the outer dimensions but use aluminum or plastic for the cases. Otherwise the weight will add up crazy fast. That is roughly how they do 12ga HE, etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) Grab-a-Gun has RAS12 uppers for $282. If anybody is still interested... Maybe I'll get one to go with my 45 Gap. Edited September 10, 2015 by Darth Saigus 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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