criminalpoet 0 Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 So I have been talking with Larry of C-Products basically begging them to make us some steel S-12 mags so that we can actually get some hi-cap mags that actually work lol, and he is seriously considering it.... Im just waiting for him to e-mail me his address so that I can send him a factory 5 rounder and an aftermarket 10 rounder so that he can start the engineering process.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 So I have been talking with Larry of C-Products basically begging them to make us some steel S-12 mags so that we can actually get some hi-cap mags that actually work lol, and he is seriously considering it.... Im just waiting for him to e-mail me his address so that I can send him a factory 5 rounder and an aftermarket 10 rounder so that he can start the engineering process.... They should be 8rd because that is the highest capacity that actually works 100% of the time and someone should send him an 8rd Russian magazine so that he has the curve geomtery and feed angle to copy precisely from the "real thing". I would buy these in a heart beat and not just a couple Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Henn 0 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 +1 for SOPMOD's idea. 8rds are the way to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brickfield mfg 86 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 WE WANT - keep us posted! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Gee I hope C-products makes these,their 9mm AR mags are excellent and a similarly high quality/higher capacity magazine for the S12 would be great smoking thunderbolts for the S12 crowd.No more spontaneous disintegration spewing rounds and followers and floor plates all over the deck.Something worth fighting with besides the 5rd mags!! Edited May 5, 2009 by SOPMOD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDarkHorse 216 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 I really hope these happen. It should drive the price of the others down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
criminalpoet 0 Posted May 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 I agree and really the price does need to come down, I mean come on, $50 for plastic mags that you really would not have much confidence in a real life battle situation with..... Id pay that much for a C-Products SS S-12 mag though! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Not the first time we've heard this Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alwaysshooting 1 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 I agree and really the price does need to come down, I mean come on, $50 for plastic mags that you really would not have much confidence in a real life battle situation with..... Id pay that much for a C-Products SS S-12 mag though! Sign me up!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 People who have that little confidence in a "plastic" S-12 mag, don't have enough experience with them to warrant my attention. Yawn... That said...a steel mag would also be cool to have. It's not like it's going to revolutionize the S-12 though, just because it's something that hasn't been sold before...just something else that everyone will "have to have". I know I want one. I've got every other type of mag that was made for the S-12 though, and except for the current Promag on the market, I WOULD trust my life with each one of them once I had put it through the paces. You have to practice with them, and mod them if necessary. Who says a steel mag isn't going to have any problems? Ever heard of rust? How about dents? I've had lots of steel AK mags that were junk. Sorry but I hate it when I see people talking so much smack about all polymer mags just because they have read a few bad reviews by people on the internet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 I'd like to see Larry take this on. I'd also like to see it all go down smoother than when they released their AR 9mm mag...or mag block for that matter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 So I have been talking with Larry of C-Products basically begging them to make us some steel S-12 mags so that we can actually get some hi-cap mags that actually work lol, and he is seriously considering it.... Im just waiting for him to e-mail me his address so that I can send him a factory 5 rounder and an aftermarket 10 rounder so that he can start the engineering process.... They should be 8rd because that is the highest capacity that actually works 100% of the time and someone should send him an 8rd Russian magazine so that he has the curve geomtery and feed angle to copy precisely from the "real thing". I would buy these in a heart beat and not just a couple ^ I agree. I like 10 round polys but for steel 12 gauge mags, anything over 8 rounds would start to get pretty damned heavy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
criminalpoet 0 Posted May 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 People who have that little confidence in a "plastic" S-12 mag, don't have enough experience with them to warrant my attention. Yawn...That said...a steel mag would also be cool to have. It's not like it's going to revolutionize the S-12 though, just because it's something that hasn't been sold before...just something else that everyone will "have to have". I know I want one. I've got every other type of mag that was made for the S-12 though, and except for the current Promag on the market, I WOULD trust my life with each one of them once I had put it through the paces. You have to practice with them, and mod them if necessary. Who says a steel mag isn't going to have any problems? Ever heard of rust? How about dents? I've had lots of steel AK mags that were junk. Sorry but I hate it when I see people talking so much smack about all polymer mags just because they have read a few bad reviews by people on the internet. You said: "People who have that little confidence in a "plastic" S-12 mag, don't have enough experience with them to warrant my attention." My Response: I have enough experience with them to know that EVERY MAKE OF THESE S12 MAGS HAS THEIR OWN PROBLEMS! Hell, even with standard AK mags the only poly-mags that are really worth a crap are the Bulgarian circle 10's, these S-12's are pretty much an AK that fires 12 gauge rounds... You said: "It's not like it's going to revolutionize the S-12 though, just because it's something that hasn't been sold before...just something else that everyone will "have to have"." My Response: It WILL revolutionize the S-12 in the sense that a well designed stainless steel S-12 mag will make the Saiga-12 a true functioning semi-auto shotgun that goes bang and properly feeds another round to the hungry mouth of the gun without issues... You said: "I've got every other type of mag that was made for the S-12 though, and except for the current Promag on the market, I WOULD trust my life with each one of them once I had put it through the paces." My Responce: Again, All makes of after market S-12 mags have their problems in one condition or another, just take a look at all of the threads on this forum alone displaying that fact.... Would you trust your life to Pro-mag with no lube? How about an AGP in a SHTF situation in freezing temps in the mountains in the middle of winter? Or how about a Surefire 12 rounder when the only ammo you have is in 3" mag? 8 rounder lol, may as well have a semi-auto pump if 8 is all its going to hold! You said: "You have to practice with them, and mod them if necessary. Who says a steel mag isn't going to have any problems? Ever heard of rust? How about dents? I've had lots of steel AK mags that were junk." My Response: For a mag that retails at the gouging price of an S-12 mag YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PRACTICE OR MOD THEM FOR THEM TO WORK!! Hell, at these prices the friggen mags should clean the gun for you too lol! Also, you asked me if I have "ever heard of rust", my answer is, NOT ON A SS C-Products mag and I own several... +, there have been a few situations when I had slipped/tripped while hunting with one of my AR's and the C-Product mags held up... Heres a question for you, ever seen a steel AK mag come apart under fire? How bout a plastic S-12 mag lol? You said youve had lots of AK mags that were junk, as far as Im concerned, do the the feedback of S-12 owners, the current production after market S-12 mags are junk... Annnnnd, there are several different makes of AK mags that always give you thousands of rounds of firing pleasure without problems such as the Chinese Flat-back mags of the 80's, Bulgarian circle 10 mags, Poly-Tech mags and Yugo mags..... As far as Im concerned, I will not buy another single mag for my S-12 unless its a steel hi-cap with an anti-tilt follower, especially at the current market prices........ You said: "Sorry but I hate it when I see people talking so much smack about all polymer mags just because they have read a few bad reviews by people on the internet." My Response: There are more than just a FEW bad reviews just on these forums alone, much less the entire community of S-12 owners, certainly enough to easily justify the production of a quality steel hi-cap S-12 mags..... Annnd, I hate it when there are those that defend substandard products..... The people of the S-12 community deserve a working hi-cap mag for their guns period! And I am going to make sure that I do my part to hopefully see if I can make that happen! If C-Products does step up to the plate and designs a WORKING mag, its going to FORCE the other manufactures to improve their existing productsl, and this will = GREAT NEWS for the hardworking S-12 owners that dump their every dime into their guns...... Love me or hate me this is my opinion! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Well then! I guess ya told me didn't cha!? LOL! You sir...are a perfect example of why I don't pay any attention to half the posts on this forum any more. Get on out there and change the world then...dream on. BTW I'm not an AR 15 person and I don't know jack shit about C mags. I didn't know they were stainless. I do know a hell of a lot about S-12 mags though and you are full of shit if you say they are all crap. I do know about P MAGS though....Ain't dem da ones dat work so grate and everbody likes so much dese daze? Oh....that must be because they are steel right? NOT! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Steel mag, no steel mag? Either way no big deal to me. Criminalpoet I have no problem with any company stepping up to the plate and trying to offer a quality product for the Saiga! But, coming in here and stating that all competing products are crap and we need your pals at C-Products to finally make the Saiga a "a true functioning semi-auto shotgun that goes bang" is ridiculous. You are bragging about a product that does not exist from a company that has never made a Saiga product. It would be wise not to expect a lot of enthusiasm without at least a prototype to back up some of the hype. Frankly you sound like you know a too much about C-Products for me to take your thread as much more then a clandestine advertisement to gage response. But good luck and I look forward to seeing something a little more concrete! Edited May 5, 2009 by Azrial Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 If C-Products does step up to the plate and designs a WORKING mag That is a big IF. There are many folks out there that will never buy a C-Product ummm product because of the way their 9mm mag release went down. Lots of bad/delayed stated delivery times, poor initial performance, a change to the follower after shipment, then a redesign and labeling system for two mag bodies instead of one. I think I was one of the lucky ones and got in on some of the first mags and they happened to work fine with my setup. From what I've read, the initial 9mm mag block release was met with lots of skepticism as well. In all fairness, the 9mm AR mag is probably one of the most difficult mags to do. Lots of variables. I would imagine the S12 would be easier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
775Patriot 0 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 People who have that little confidence in a "plastic" S-12 mag, don't have enough experience with them to warrant my attention. Yawn...That said...a steel mag would also be cool to have. It's not like it's going to revolutionize the S-12 though, just because it's something that hasn't been sold before...just something else that everyone will "have to have". I know I want one. I've got every other type of mag that was made for the S-12 though, and except for the current Promag on the market, I WOULD trust my life with each one of them once I had put it through the paces. You have to practice with them, and mod them if necessary. Who says a steel mag isn't going to have any problems? Ever heard of rust? How about dents? I've had lots of steel AK mags that were junk. Sorry but I hate it when I see people talking so much smack about all polymer mags just because they have read a few bad reviews by people on the internet. You said: "People who have that little confidence in a "plastic" S-12 mag, don't have enough experience with them to warrant my attention." My Response: I have enough experience with them to know that EVERY MAKE OF THESE S12 MAGS HAS THEIR OWN PROBLEMS! Hell, even with standard AK mags the only poly-mags that are really worth a crap are the Bulgarian circle 10's, these S-12's are pretty much an AK that fires 12 gauge rounds... You said: "It's not like it's going to revolutionize the S-12 though, just because it's something that hasn't been sold before...just something else that everyone will "have to have"." My Response: It WILL revolutionize the S-12 in the sense that a well designed stainless steel S-12 mag will make the Saiga-12 a true functioning semi-auto shotgun that goes bang and properly feeds another round to the hungry mouth of the gun without issues... You said: "I've got every other type of mag that was made for the S-12 though, and except for the current Promag on the market, I WOULD trust my life with each one of them once I had put it through the paces." My Responce: Again, All makes of after market S-12 mags have their problems in one condition or another, just take a look at all of the threads on this forum alone displaying that fact.... Would you trust your life to Pro-mag with no lube? How about an AGP in a SHTF situation in freezing temps in the mountains in the middle of winter? Or how about a Surefire 12 rounder when the only ammo you have is in 3" mag? 8 rounder lol, may as well have a semi-auto pump if 8 is all its going to hold! You said: "You have to practice with them, and mod them if necessary. Who says a steel mag isn't going to have any problems? Ever heard of rust? How about dents? I've had lots of steel AK mags that were junk." My Response: For a mag that retails at the gouging price of an S-12 mag YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PRACTICE OR MOD THEM FOR THEM TO WORK!! Hell, at these prices the friggen mags should clean the gun for you too lol! Also, you asked me if I have "ever heard of rust", my answer is, NOT ON A SS C-Products mag and I own several... +, there have been a few situations when I had slipped/tripped while hunting with one of my AR's and the C-Product mags held up... Heres a question for you, ever seen a steel AK mag come apart under fire? How bout a plastic S-12 mag lol? You said youve had lots of AK mags that were junk, as far as Im concerned, do the the feedback of S-12 owners, the current production after market S-12 mags are junk... Annnnnd, there are several different makes of AK mags that always give you thousands of rounds of firing pleasure without problems such as the Chinese Flat-back mags of the 80's, Bulgarian circle 10 mags, Poly-Tech mags and Yugo mags..... As far as Im concerned, I will not buy another single mag for my S-12 unless its a steel hi-cap with an anti-tilt follower, especially at the current market prices........ You said: "Sorry but I hate it when I see people talking so much smack about all polymer mags just because they have read a few bad reviews by people on the internet." My Response: There are more than just a FEW bad reviews just on these forums alone, much less the entire community of S-12 owners, certainly enough to easily justify the production of a quality steel hi-cap S-12 mags..... Annnd, I hate it when there are those that defend substandard products..... The people of the S-12 community deserve a working hi-cap mag for their guns period! And I am going to make sure that I do my part to hopefully see if I can make that happen! If C-Products does step up to the plate and designs a WORKING mag, its going to FORCE the other manufactures to improve their existing productsl, and this will = GREAT NEWS for the hardworking S-12 owners that dump their every dime into their guns...... Love me or hate me this is my opinion! I agree with you man, I would love to see a steel mag! Like you said, for the money that people spend on their S12's and the mags to feed it, I think an SS mag would be well received!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dannyfantasy2000 68 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 How about an AGP in a SHTF situation in freezing temps in the mountains I'm going to make my best attempt to avoid that situation. Besides the point a little, a shotgun is not really cut out for mountain warfare. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koliadko 207 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 How about an AGP in a SHTF situation in freezing temps in the mountains Besides the point a little, a shotgun is not really cut out for mountain warfare. Neither am I!!!!! Non issue for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XXasdf 29 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Steel 8 rounders would be awesome. I'd take a few. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) How about an AGP in a SHTF situation in freezing temps in the mountains I'm going to make my best attempt to avoid that situation. Besides the point a little, a shotgun is not really cut out for mountain warfare. That is not necessarily true. With slugs a S-12 could be a mean 100m and under weapon. There are plenty of trees on the Rocky Mountains here where I live, (just as a relevant example), and, unless you're fighting over mountain peaks, (12,000 ft +), aka above the timberline, there is no reason to discount the Saiga 12 in "mountain warfare". It could absolutely slaughter an op4, (using a 20 round drum for example), in alpine forests Edited May 5, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Well then! I guess ya told me didn't cha!? LOL! You sir...are a perfect example of why I don't pay any attention to half the posts on this forum any more. Get on out there and change the world then...dream on. BTW I'm not an AR 15 person and I don't know jack shit about C mags. I didn't know they were stainless. I do know a hell of a lot about S-12 mags though and you are full of shit if you say they are all crap. I do know about P MAGS though....Ain't dem da ones dat work so grate and everbody likes so much dese daze? Oh....that must be because they are steel right? NOT! Dude Cobra, he's got like 36 posts and he's been here for a whole three months, this guy obviously knows his shit! He's going to revolutionize the entire Saiga 12 market... oh wait, crap, the businesses which support this forum already did that, sorry guy you're a little late. I've got one question for you... Where will these magazines be manufactured? If it is anywhere aside from the USA, I'm not interested! I read that Beta is out of Georgia, but no where does it say where his products are actually manufactured. Per price, looking at all of the products Beta offers, they are pretty steep too; let's see for a drum $260-$340 ... How much is that MD Arms drum? Oh, it is the same price as their least expensive drum. I guess you couldn't be bothered with doing any actual research on your own. Bring the product to market and people will buy it, that's how a free market works. Good products from good companies make money. Come to this forum and slam the products sold by the business people who support the forum and act like a know-it-all, when you have pretty much no reputation... well, by doing this you've already tainted the market. You come off as an uninformed troll, so I'm much less likely to purchase from your buddy, if he ever decides to bring his product to market. When I get in the AR platform, which should be fairly soon, I'm now much less likely to purchase from Beta, good work I guess. Try using search and see how many thread you get for steel mags or metal mags, this crap goes back for years, where are they? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 If someone makes a good steel mag....great. If they don't....fine. Obviously, no product will be 100%, all the time. This is especially true with the first production. The mere cost of all the ammo they'd need to test fire through a prototype before going to market would probably limit a lot of people from making it. Ask Mike D how many thousands of dollars in ammo he went through testing his drum. As far as weight vs. capacity, I'd probably want it right around the 8 round mark. Beyond that and it would probably start to get too heavy. Just my opinion, obviously. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sidewinderl 43 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 For my money, I'd much rather have affordable factory 2/5/8 mags, which are as reliable as you're gonna get. Past that, you're better off getting an MD20, which is certainly a lot tougher than "I dropped it and it didn't dent". Saying you might as well use an 8 round tube instead of an 8 round mag is ridiculous. A mag loads a lot faster, and the reason 8 is considered ideal, is because going any larger than that in a stick mag is not very practical. S-12's certainly aren't 10/22's when it comes to mag size afterall. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lilrigg 0 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) I'd like to see some steel mags for the s-12. I've been an ar guy for years and have over 80 mags, 50 or so that are c products. IMO They make a great ar mag, never had a problem with one. So if he does his homework I'd be happy to buy some steel mags, but I have no complaints about my surefire 12 rounders(I've got 5). They have worked perfect for me, but everyone seems to have a different experience no matter what. Just my 2 cents I'd also like to say thanks to everyone on this forum, it's full of great info. Edited May 5, 2009 by lilrigg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 I will throw my somewhat informed comment in. This is a HARD project. You have a lot of recoil and hardly any support for the magazine. The plastic ones have the advantage with this application. Not saying steel won't work, just that you are going to need a LOT of metal on the front tap area to keep it from bending. My idea was two layers of 16 gauge steel, and that was for a 8 round or smaller. C-products makes magazines that fit in AR-15s, most of their steel seems to come out at around .020 or so. That works great when you have two inches of magazine supported by the receiver, their bending equipment may not handle the steel that they would probably need to use. I could be wrong and they may have one working in no time. But if I've learned anything about saigas its that EVERYTHING is made of unobtainum until they are tested by at least 6+ users. And even then 1 in 10 won't work right in the first batch unless you have your shotgun "serviced for reliability" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Cadiz Gun Works may be able to offer some testing and fine tuning assistance, if someone is talking about steel mags for the S12.....We are the warranty shop for the importer, after all.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rbthntr64 21 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 If they are going to the trouble to make a steel mag, why not develop a 10 or 12 round mag. 3 Gun shooters need them. an 8 round would be a handicap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) CProducts 9mm AR mags are tanks. I have faith in them. Their plastic magblock is a massive piece of crap though. Oh and I live 40 minutes from them. They're in GunTown, CT. Edited May 5, 2009 by Twinsen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gmorgan 2 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Edited May 5, 2009 by gmorgan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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