beefcakeb99 572 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 This is THE subject of the study! Too bad the fucktard speculation is going to never allow the S12 pricing to return to normal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Is it a gas impingement system? Or bolt operated? Does anyone know? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nattyiceking 33 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Contender my ass, that gun ain't got shit on the S-12 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 I'm sure the AR shotgun concept has been thrown around numerous manufacturers here in the States. Look at all the different caliber uppers (and lowers) there are. If it were feasible and reliable to market a shotty AR, I would imagine there would be several different brands available. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) Is it a gas impingement system? Or bolt operated? Does anyone know? Can you imagine the wad fouling and reliability issues with a Direct Impingement shotgun? One would think it's a piston system. Edited April 4, 2011 by MT Predator 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I would hope so.^^^ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I understood that it had been approved for import, but that was before the shotgun study hoopla. If they have heartburn with a regular imported Saiga, I don't see how they can let this in but I guess it doesn't have to make sense because the Guberment is involved. It has been my understanding with those I have spoken to at the SHOT show that this was indeed aproved for import. I even rememeber having a link to give to prove that at one point(i'm not digging for it again). The fact that at the same time this was approved the study came out makes a strong case for the S-12 NOT being banned. After all this is the gun that would require them to make the disctinction that a pistol grip is NOT a evil feature on a shotgun. And if that is the case we may very well see some of the greatest times ever as full flavor saigas that havn't been neautered come spilling into the US. That said there is uncertainty in the fact that strife with the factory and importation is causing a huge hurdle for guns, and Sons of Guns is increasing knowledge of them and raising demand. I wholeheartedly believe that the days of sub $700 S-12s is gone. So much so that I am working on getting the 24" model I've been dreaming about making a duck gun out of for years now at the tune of $649. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bagelthief 1 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) Nobody should expend any effort to try and convince anybody that anything is "sporting." That's a bullshit unconstitutional rule that some pussies cooked up to restrict gun rights by getting some of the namby-pamby gun owners to agree that 'nobody really needs a military firearm' as some kind of "reasonable compromise." Now, we have more and more gun people trying to comply with that load of crap because it's the path of least resistance, and that amounts to tacit acceptance of it. Well fuck that shit, and that's where the next battleground is going to be if (or when) they decide that the S12 is "not sporting." The counter-argument should not be 'well it kinda is' but instead be 'what the fuck difference does it make bitch? Read the constitution.' This is the best post I have read on this forum to date. Edited April 5, 2011 by Bagelthief Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shoop_da_woop 3 Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 Looks like a 410 to me..... Nope 12 GA all the way! There is a lot more to Saiga 12s than just being a shotgun with a detachable magazine... and that's all this ugly thing looks to be. Well, that and it looks to be a standard gas operated shotgun cross dressing as a AR15... ugh... Hey there Mr. Saiga 12 purist, this is a pretty badass gun. Who wouldn't want the 2 most influential rifles in the world...IN 12GA!?!? It'd make a great addition to my exotic shotgun collection. A 12GA AK-47, and a 12GA "M-16." I get enough dropped jaws when I tell people about my Shotgun AK-47. The Safir Arms T-14 is only available in .410 though, where as this is 12g. Do I think i would replace my s-12, hell no. Who says it has to REPLACE the Saiga? Jesus, you can own more than one style of shotgun. So quick to snub out a competitor JUST cuz it's not your Saiga. Hell these are cool looking shotguns, who wouldn't want a dreaded "black gun" in 12GA? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oceanrover 1 Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 Looks like a 410 to me..... Nope 12 GA all the way! There is a lot more to Saiga 12s than just being a shotgun with a detachable magazine... and that's all this ugly thing looks to be. Well, that and it looks to be a standard gas operated shotgun cross dressing as a AR15... ugh... Hey there Mr. Saiga 12 purist, this is a pretty badass gun. Who wouldn't want the 2 most influential rifles in the world...IN 12GA!?!? It'd make a great addition to my exotic shotgun collection. A 12GA AK-47, and a 12GA "M-16." I get enough dropped jaws when I tell people about my Shotgun AK-47. The Safir Arms T-14 is only available in .410 though, where as this is 12g. Do I think i would replace my s-12, hell no. Who says it has to REPLACE the Saiga? Jesus, you can own more than one style of shotgun. So quick to snub out a competitor JUST cuz it's not your Saiga. Hell these are cool looking shotguns, who wouldn't want a dreaded "black gun" in 12GA? I totally disagree, the Saiga 12 is in a class all it's own, and offers more personalizing. The thing looks like and AR. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 We're missing something here. Saigas are imported into the U.S. in "sporting" configuration. That shotgun in "AR" clothing is NOT. I doubt it would be imported unless it gets fitted with U.S. components to comply with 922r. If so, it would be like an Arsenal AK and will be priced like one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
btr 15 Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 The stupid study said pistol grips on shotguns are sporting, so it may make it in intact. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
opto_isolator 3 Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 This is also an option, and its made in the US: http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/preview-kel-tec-shotgun-ksg/ Looks awesome! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FORKLIFT352 63 Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 But it's a pump...I can't believe I used butt and pump in the same sen.LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vtec16 0 Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Quick sign me up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDarkHorse 216 Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 That Kel Tech gun looks interesting. Like a pump 12 in a bullpup kit....with dual tube mags. Too F'n pricey though! After all, it is still a pump..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shoop_da_woop 3 Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 That Kel Tech gun looks interesting. Like a pump 12 in a bullpup kit....with dual tube mags. Too F'n pricey though! After all, it is still a pump..... Agreed! I'm not spending more than $300 for a pump, sorry y'all. If the tag is over $500 it better be an autoloader or have fuckin' gold inlay! But I digress; I do not think that too many other autoloaders will come close to my Saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Safir produces the T-14 .410 upper for the Ar-15 and its not as regulated by the BATF since its an incomplete firearm in their eyes. If the engineering would work, import a 12 gauge upper for the Ar-10 series lowers that are plentiful here in the states. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theorangeplanet 968 Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Hey there Mr. Saiga 12 purist, this is a pretty badass gun. Who wouldn't want the 2 most influential rifles in the world...IN 12GA!?!? It'd make a great addition to my exotic shotgun collection. A 12GA AK-47, and a 12GA "M-16." I get enough dropped jaws when I tell people about my Shotgun AK-47. This thing is only dressed up like an M16... it's no more M16 than a 10/22 with an AR kit is. The S12 is an AK chambered it 12 gauge... there's no masquerading there. I'm hardly an S12 purist...its just that this thing just doesn't look very well designed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62 Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 If the engineering would work, import a 12 gauge upper for the Ar-10 series lowers that are plentiful here in the states. Yeah, I'd be up for that. I keep thinking about buying an LMT .308, and being able to put a 12 gauge upper on it would sell me. At least it would once I finish paying Visa for the 4 S-12s I bought this year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shoop_da_woop 3 Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Hey there Mr. Saiga 12 purist, this is a pretty badass gun. Who wouldn't want the 2 most influential rifles in the world...IN 12GA!?!? It'd make a great addition to my exotic shotgun collection. A 12GA AK-47, and a 12GA "M-16." I get enough dropped jaws when I tell people about my Shotgun AK-47. This thing is only dressed up like an M16... it's no more M16 than a 10/22 with an AR kit is. The S12 is an AK chambered it 12 gauge... there's no masquerading there. I'm hardly an S12 purist...its just that this thing just doesn't look very well designed. Well put, good sir. I was under the impression that it had all the inner workings of an AR-15. How does it work internally if not like an AR? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theorangeplanet 968 Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Hey there Mr. Saiga 12 purist, this is a pretty badass gun. Who wouldn't want the 2 most influential rifles in the world...IN 12GA!?!? It'd make a great addition to my exotic shotgun collection. A 12GA AK-47, and a 12GA "M-16." I get enough dropped jaws when I tell people about my Shotgun AK-47. This thing is only dressed up like an M16... it's no more M16 than a 10/22 with an AR kit is. The S12 is an AK chambered it 12 gauge... there's no masquerading there. I'm hardly an S12 purist...its just that this thing just doesn't look very well designed. Well put, good sir. I was under the impression that it had all the inner workings of an AR-15. How does it work internally if not like an AR? Check out Doug's post at the top, he's actually handled one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigmegina 3 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) i saw 1 at the rochester ny gun show.ati says they are going to import them.they are based in rochester ny.i think he said they were 410. Edited April 20, 2011 by bigmegina Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Firearms Blog says: Valtro PM5 12 magazine-fed 12 gauge shotguns are once again going to be imported into the US. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Firearms Blog says: Valtro PM5 12 magazine-fed 12 gauge shotguns are once again going to be imported into the US. Oh yes, please! Bring on the fine Italian made, $1000.00 +, pump shottie Fuck that! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 Well I'm here at the raa booth and I'm playing with these. I will have to say for 699 these feel pretty damn good I have been pumping. People for Saiga info and there also seems to be promising development going on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted May 1, 2011 Report Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) Talked to raa a bit more and the news on this thing is recoil is going to be up by 30 percent the gas system looks easy to clean and the barrel can be removed like an 870 and there will be a rifled barrel and it has lrbho the bad points are the lower reciver and stock are one piece. You also need two different mags for 2 3/4 and 3 inch Edited May 1, 2011 by kindapointless Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shoop_da_woop 3 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 There is a lot more to Saiga 12s than just being a shotgun with a detachable magazine... and that's all this ugly thing looks to be. Well, that and it looks to be a standard gas operated shotgun cross dressing as a AR15... ugh... Dittto that. Of course I'm not an AR fan but I could guess those that are would like it. Agreed. I didn't know that it was a standard gas powered dressed up as an AR. Now that I've looked at it closer, I can see that is the case, and I am unimpressed. Thanks for making sure I knew that before I tried importing one and wasting money! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
erwos 12 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 I'm sorry, but the first thing I thought when I saw the picture of the Akdal MKA1919 was "that is one REALLY ugly gun". I'm not buying a gun that ugly unless it can be fixed... and that parts breakdown doesn't give me confidence that it can be. It boggles my mind that foreign companies don't get that AR-15 or AK-47 furniture compatibility is a really big feature for "tactical" rifles these days. Yeah, the handguards probably aren't going to happen, but the stock and pistol grip are almost freebies. The KSG might be somewhat expensive for a pump (albeit I think it'll retail ~$650), but at least it's bringing something new to the table (for the US market, anyways). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jmdove 3 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 There is a lot more to Saiga 12s than just being a shotgun with a detachable magazine... and that's all this ugly thing looks to be. Well, that and it looks to be a standard gas operated shotgun cross dressing as a AR15... ugh... Dittto that. Of course I'm not an AR fan but I could guess those that are would like it. Still be worth having at least one though. I'd buy it just to have one. Hope they bring it on soon, the more mag feed shotguns, the merrier. Hell, it should be fed law that every family has to own a mag fed 12 gauge as a requirement of American citizenship. Wouldn't that kick the anti-gunners in the ass. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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