Who would want a Modernized AK

[Joseph 141]

Okay pretend a US arms manufacture began selling the following firearm.

 

AK Receiver

 

AK bolt and carrier

 

Telescopic sled "Mag'pul style" stock

 

Mag well with the ability to accept 7.62X39 or 5.56 or 5.45 AR mags

 

Free float quad rail hand guard

 

Fulling non tool detachable Barrel and corresponding barrels for above calibers as optional .cal change kits at around 200$-300$ dollars a barrel

 

Hinged Picitinny/Weaver dust cover

 

Internal left side safety

 

Last round bolt hold open and internal release on left side

 

I'm not even saying all that's even possible "a lot of it is obviously" but IF it was, would it be something anyone here would even want?

Edited July 27, 2011 by Joebanks

[TwentyNizzo 66]

This is the only thing I would care to have:

 

 

Hinged dust cover with solid picitinny top dust cover

 

 

All the other stuff is pretty worthless to me. The AK100 side folder works nice with the rifles, LRBHO isn't needed, mag changes are fast and very positive.

[Joseph 141]

This is the only thing I would care to have:

 

 

Hinged dust cover with solid picitinny top dust cover

 

 

All the other stuff is pretty worthless to me. The AK100 side folder works nice with the rifles, LRBHO isn't needed, mag changes are fast and very positive.

 

I'm sorry i just noticed that was a terrible stumbling of words. i fixed in the edit.

[rob-cubed 74]

The Valmet/Galil is already a big step towards a modern, improved AK. Would love to see somebody producing something similar domestically or for current import. Better sights, more accessible safety, but they didn't mess much with all the other parts that make an AK what it is. Some of the newer Polish guns add all the tacticool rails and whatnot, I'd love to get my hands on one of those.

 

LRBHO would be nice, as would a push button magwell. I've never liked rock-n-lock much but--AK mags are durable and last forever unlike semi-disposable mags most other modern guns have. The move to a push button magwell would strip the AK mags of lugs and some of its reliability.

 

Aside from the sights, a VZ.58 is already pretty damn close to perfect as well.

Edited July 27, 2011 by rob-cubed

[Arik 565]

Maybe some better sights. Don't care about the rest, especially if it start to look ARish.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

You didn't specify whether the barrel(s) and gas blocks would be hard-chromed or not. That'd be a requirement for me, especially at prices nearly that high.

 

As for the other proposed design features.. I think a hinged, railed dust cover would be nice but I don't want a quad-railed handguard, (unnecessary weight), and some of the other proposed changes might compromise the Kalashnikov's legendary reliability, (e.g. the lrbho), so I'd have no interest.

 

ymmv.

[Saiga_rom 91]

modernized AK would be cool, but if i had to choose between that and a standard AK with nice wood furniture, id choose the standard AK. That design is classic and timeless.

[dayofruin 425]

Sounds a lot like the BASTARD kit that MSA may soon offer, minus the barrel mod and multiple cal. Pretty novel idea. I like traditional AK's as well. But, this would be a very cool rifle.

[SOPMOD 254]

If modernized doesn't mean adding a bunch a crap and weight then I am in.

 

Lighter, more accurate,novel finished,improved controls,light crisp trigger,anti-corrosion plating,new calibers.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2011 by SOPMOD

[volkov 318]

I just want want the bolt carrier/gas system from the Ak-107 and I'm happy..

[TexanShooter 8]

For me I'm more of a traditionalist lol, the only change I would like on my modern AK is a krink made in the US. I like the way the side folding stocks look and seems like they perform pretty well.

[thebuns1 4,323]

the ak 200?

 

http://www.gunblog.com/ak-200-rifle-the-next-generation-ak/

[MT Predator 2,294]

I would maybe pay a reputable builder to modernize one but I wouldn't buy something the Century or Arsenal Monkeys hammer out in mass quantities. A lot of it you can do yourself BTW apart from the interchanging barrels. A left side safety and LRBHO are not that critical IMO. Just learn and practice the AK Manual of Arms. I've posted a few of these pics before...

Polish Special Forces AK in Afghanistan.

This Saiga belongs to Travis Haley of Magpul Dynamics fame.

One more.

[SOPMOD 254]

I think a lot of this question depends on what you call "modernized".To some people adding a bunch of stuff to a regular AK is modernization but to me "Modernization" means fundamental changes in layout,construction methods and increases in performance.

 

Look at the pic of the CZ2000 see where parts like the rear trunnion/folding stock hinge and folding stock is combined to make lighter more elegant structures? See the way rear part of the receiver is brought back to parallel with the bore axis? The extra weight trimmed off of assemblies like the FS/GB and even the "Krink" type top cover hinge is recessed into the gas tube retainer rear mounting base with less mess and protrusion than my Bulgy Krinkov.

 

ideas for what constitutes "Modernized"

 

1.Buttstock in-line or over-line to bore axis to reduce(or even eliminate) muzzle climb

2.Crisp, short reset triggers to improve shooter potential accuracy(think Geiselle triggers for M16s)

3.Reduced weight of assemblies,combine parts to save weight and bulk wherever possible

4.Adjustable or "self adjusting" gas regulators for use with varying ammo quality or even multi-caliber capability

5.Quick change barrels for mutli-role/multi-caliber applications

6.Integrated,stable optics mounting platforms that allowed potential cowitness without cooking them on the gas tube.

7.Improved iron sights preferably with peep apertures and as long as possible sight radius with possibly fold away function.

8.More calibers(I would really like something about the size of an AK-105 in 6.8SPC)

 

Those are just some ideas, I have what some would consider a pretty modernized AK if slapping rails and dot sights with strong hand operable safety fits the bill but when I hear "Modernized" I am hoping for an AK that can compete with any of the newest and bestest uber-carbines without sacrificing the heart of the AKs legendary reliability.

[Heath_h49008 442]

That "Free float" handguard is kinda pointless on a weapon that cannot have a free floated barrel.

 

Other than the interchangeable barrels, the rest can be done on a Saiga... and you can buy a whole weapon in the other chambering for +$200 the cost of your swap kits, so why add the complication?

 

Sounds like its just a matter of you ordering the parts and getting it put together.

[RobRez 1,895]

I voted "Nothing" It's beauty is it's simpicity, reliability and AFFORDABILITY! It is one thing to buy a Saiga for $350 - $400 and convert it with a little more cash, but to buy an AK whose potential entry price is $800???

One question.....will you be tickling my Balls while you F**k me up the Ass???

[TX-Zen 287]

I don't really understand the US obsession with modernizing the AK, to me that term really means making the AK like the AR and I don't see the point.

 

 

Some common complaints:

 

Upgrading the sights on an AK is only a matter of training. Spend some time on the AK sights and you see how they actually work really well. If you don't think so honestly you aren't spending enough time on them.

Sight radius is also pretty much the same on an AK as it is on an M4 type rifle so it's really not necessary to increase the sight radius to match the AR, its already there.

 

A Krebs style safety lever works wonders for people who must constantly switch the safety on or off.

 

Mag changes are just about as fast as an AR if you practice. Why people think changing a mag at superhuman speed without taking cover first is a good idea doesn't make sense to me personally, but in terms of sheer speed they aren't that far off from each other if you find yourself with no choice but to speed reload.

 

Adding rails for accessories is easy, there are dozens on the market. Some of them like the LHV47 are actually light enough to be useful.

 

Optics are also easy on AK's with siderails, the system works very well. Some types of red dots will cowitness on a side rail mount if that's your thing. Personally I don't care for cowitness because side rail optics are designed to be quick release and do work as intended. If there's a problem go ahead and take 2 seconds to remove the optic and rock on. There are optics like 1P76 Rakurs that have an always-on black reticule with tritium illumination for low light shooting...no batteries, no electronics and nothing to break. There are magnified optics for 5.45 with BDC calibration designed to give first round hits out to 400m too.

 

 

 

 

 

I like Sopmod's idea of same or similar rifle but lighter. I don't find 5.45's to be difficult to haul around but AKSU's are even nicer, so lighter can be a really good thing. Hinged top cover with rail like the Saiga 12 version 030 and/or the AKSU style with stormwerkz rail would be really cool for me and I like the top cover with integrated rear sight on the AK200 quite a bit. Neither of these would be earth shattering for me though... I've gotten really familiar with combloc optics. But there are zillions more western optics in the States than there are combloc optics, so a top rail would help make it really easy to mount them and I think thats a good thing.

 

 

Call my a cynic but I wouldn't trust a US company to do anything significantly original. Based on all the things I've seen invented for the AK here in the states it really seems like the rifle isn't well understood or isn't viewed the way it was designed. The AR is so ingrained in our mindset that it's really hard for people to look at an AK for what it is instead of what they think it should be, and that's not even counting the incredible crapload of tacticool accessories that AR's don't need either. I think we'll probably end up with some kind of overweight dud if the market track record speaks for itself.

 

 

 

 

 

Z

Edited July 30, 2011 by TX-Zen

[Arik 565]

^ +10000

 

I do have one question. Why does the safety bother so many people? Most people buy gun without safeties (glock some M&Ps, revolvers) but when it comes to rifles, especially the AK, people complain about its safety mechanism.

 

I use my when its mandatory at some ranges and when I first buy the rifle to make sure everything functions.

[BpS12 512]

For me, cost is the biggest issue. That and I prefer the Bullpup config which I'm working on a kit(when I get time ) now. So unless someone beats me to, which is likely, I'll say no thanks.

[Saiga_rom 91]

For me, cost is the biggest issue. That and I prefer the Bullpup config which I'm working on a kit(when I get time ) now. So unless someone beats me to, which is likely, I'll say no thanks.

 

building a rifle in bullpup configuration seems like the most logical thing to do for the sake of making the barrel as long as possible, while keeping the overall length as short as possible. personally though, i prefer the appearance of a standard rifle.

 

what id really like to see is a bullpup rifle with an FNP90 style mag along the top of the rifle (preferably in 308 or 7.62X39), and secondary firearm underneath with a large AK style mag underneath. have that be interchangeable with 45ACP, 500 mag, or 12 gauge components.

 

a rifle like that would be very compact, have the ability to reach out and touch far away targets, or shred really close targets.

[kodaline 178]

WHY YOU WANT RAIL FOR KALASHNIKOV? IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH AS PROCURED FROM IZHEVSK MECHANICAL WORKS? YOU THINK NEEDS IMPROVEMENT? THEN MAYBE YOU FIND JOB WITH ARMY OF RUSSIA! YOU HAVE DRINKS WITH MIKHAIL KALASHNIKOV' date=' TRADE STORY OF MANY WEAPONS DESIGNED AND DETAILS OF SCHOOL FOR ENGINEERING!

 

OR MAYBE YOU NOT DO THIS. PROBABLY IS BECAUSE YOU NEVER DESIGN WEAPON IN WHOLE LIFE. YOU LOOK AT FINE RUSSIAN RIFLE, THINK IT NEED CRAZY SHIT STICK ON ALL SIDES OF WEAPON. YOU HAVE DISEASE OF AMERICAN CAPITALIST, CHANGE THING THAT IS FINE FOR NO REASON EXCEPT TO LOOK DIFFERENT FROM COMRADE. YOU PUT CHEAP FLASHLIGHT OF CHINESE SLAVE FACTORY ON ONE SIDE, YOU PUT BAD SCOPE OF AMERICAN MIDDLE WEST ON OTHER SIDE, YOU PUT FRONT PISTOL GRIP ON BOTTOM SO YOU ARE LIKE AMERICAN MOVIE GUY JOHN RAMBO. MAYBE YOU PUT SEX DILDO ON TOP TO FUCK YOURSELF IN ASSHOLE FOR MAKING SHAMEFUL TRAVESTY OF RIFLE OF MIKHAIL KALASHNIKOV, NO?

 

RIFLE IS FINE. YOU FUCK IT, IT ONLY GET HEAVY AND YOU STILL NO HIT LARGEST SIDE OF BARN. GO TO FIRING RANGE, PRACTICE WITH MANY MAGAZINE OF CARTRIDGE. THEN YOU NOT NEED DUMB SHIT PUT ON SIDE OF RIFLE. [/quote']

[SOPMOD 254]

A Saiga rifle already has the right mag release and trigger it seems.

Edited July 31, 2011 by SOPMOD

[kodaline 178]

That thing is retarded and dangerous.

[SOPMOD 254]

That thing is retarded and dangerous.

 

It is a front line weapon used by Russian SF(dangerous) to kill jihadis who use 40 year old unimproved AKs(retarded)

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

At what point are we making a brand new weapon that isn't really an AR and isn't really an AK?

 

The AR is moving towards the AK with piston systems (HK416, Adams Arms, LWRC, etc.) and the AK is moving towards the AK with furniture and rails.

 

Both are excellent weapons in their own right, but I would rather train myself to be proficient with both rifles instead of spending thousands of $$$ on modifications that might take a millisecond off my reload time or make one rifle more like the other rifle.

Edited August 17, 2011 by BuffetDestroyer

[nlacy 692]

The beauty of an AK is it's simplicity. That's why I vote no.

 

However, I would by something like a Daewoo, or a galil (and not parts kits built by century) type design that took AR mags, or FN FNC. Something a little different, new condition under $1,000. I'd love to see someone in the US make that.

[IndyArms 10,186]

I think ANY type of collapsible or similar stock and especially ANY AR15 stock makes an AK look like some piece of bubba'd up dogshit! !! Keep that shot off the AK!!!

[uzitiger 193]

The only things I would change are the sights since I prefer aperture sights like the Galil and Valmet and eliminate the deadly AK clack which has sent many Hajjis and communists to hell. Last round bolt hold open wouldn't hurt either.

 

I like the policy of keep it simple stupid.

[MT Predator 2,294]

I think ANY type of collapsible or similar stock and especially ANY AR15 stock makes an AK look like some piece of bubba'd up dogshit! !! Keep that shot off the AK!!!

While I appreciate the classic AK look, I also appreciate the versatility of a collapsing stock on a long gun to adjust the LOP. Especially if you are to be wearing extra clothing, body armor, and load bearing equipment. That's why the military adopted them.

[XD45 7,124]

Zombie Thread!!!!