thebuns1 4,323 Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 I havent tried removing anything from the reciever and then closing the cover to check alignment that way. Im thinking a few things. 1.These dust covers already had the holes stamped into them prior to being put on the guns, and when the rail is fastend to the dust cover, the rear hole is slightly off, causing the rail to bind and cant. or 2. Its binding the rail with the way the reciever is having to force the cover where it needs to be for it to lock in. Not sure how true any of that is though. lol. Just speculation. Either way it doesnt bother me, and doesnt take from the quality of the shotgun. Its rock solid none the less when everything is assembled, and is a much better example of this style than several attempts Ive seen with railed covers on other weapons with much more play in the covers, and should hold a zero much better in that regard. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sharky 1 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Here is mine, Just picked it up at my Dealer... This is a joke !! Best Picture I could get , its canted to the Left Sharky Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lokmeup 30 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 First register your warranty information here: https://www.wolf-arms.com/registration/ Then, contact the importer TGI / WOLF Arms and ask for Steve for warranty @ 865-977-9707. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Here is mine, Just picked it up at my Dealer... This is a joke !! Best Picture I could get , its canted to the Left Sharky Yours doesnt look that bad. It actually looks straight up at the sight like others have aid and barely canted at the back. Honestly I think you wouldnt even notice that with an optic unless you focused on it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OneSpeed 0 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 well I just ordered 2 of these from MAA over the weekend so hoping I get a good one, we'll see once they ship! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sharky 1 Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 First register your warranty information here: https://www.wolf-arms.com/registration/ Then, contact the importer TGI / WOLF Arms and ask for Steve for warranty @ 865-977-9707. Thanks lokmeup !!! I will keep everyone in the loop as this " Warranty Issue " unfolds Sharky Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Just realized PapaZorro updated his first post, thought I'd bring it up cause I never went back to his post cause was following along. In case anyone else missed it. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/81493-canted-top-cover-and-warrantee-issues/#entry817382 PS... holy shit Eotechs look huge on these Vepr 12's!!! Doesn't look that off in side pics, but from the back.. WOW!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steven Stallings 4 Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Add mine to the canted rail list haven't shot it yet but this sucks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OneSpeed 0 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Just picked up my 2 Vepr tonight. My FFL dealer was impressed, they are familiar with Saiga's and had alot of questions about the Vepr 12. From just looking at them in the store I didn't see cant like in the pics here but will spend more time looking over them tonight and snap some pictures. Right now cautiously optimistic. From a purely cosmetic standpoint they look great, fit and finish was excellent. This was my first time buying a gun over the internet and Mississippi Auto Arms was fantastic to deal. Never had a problem getting a hold of a live person to talk to and they shipped same day (and provided tracks #s and updates) after I faxed in the compliance form. Hoping to go put some rounds through it tomorrow and get some pics Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 It appears that the problem most likely originates from inconsistent "spring-back" of the sheet metal top cover when it is released from the form die. Could be issues with the substrate material or the forming process, but I believe that is what is causing the randomly twisted top covers. However, the fix takes five seconds. Pop the cover up, grab ahold of it with both hands and twist/flex it back into contour. Slap the cover back down and you're good. Tony P.S. Granted, I only have one sample, so others may have more extreme issues. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randyf 35 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 It appears that the problem most likely originates from inconsistent "spring-back" of the sheet metal when it is released from the form die. Could be issues with the substrate material or the forming process, but I believe that is what is causing the randomly twisted top covers. However, the fix takes five seconds. Pop the cover up, grab ahold of it with both hands and twist/flex it back into contour. Slap the cover back down and you're good. Tony That is exactly what I did with the one I had that sat just a little left (maybe 1/6") of center. The other three i have are straight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iteachsurfing 50 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 It appears that the problem most likely originates from inconsistent "spring-back" of the sheet metal top cover when it is released from the form die. Could be issues with the substrate material or the forming process, but I believe that is what is causing the randomly twisted top covers. However, the fix takes five seconds. Pop the cover up, grab ahold of it with both hands and twist/flex it back into contour. Slap the cover back down and you're good. Tony P.S. Granted, I only have one sample, so others may have more extreme issues. This would be a great Before & After / How to Video !!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lokmeup 30 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Pop the cover up, grab ahold of it with both hands and twist/flex it back into contour. Slap the cover back down and you're good. Tony P.S. Granted, I only have one sample, so others may have more extreme issues. Nope. Did not work on mine. The rear of the rail is riveted at a cant onto the top cover. You can see in the attached picture how canted the top cover is to the level rail when it is NOT locked into the back of the receiver. Obviously, once the top cover is locked into the rear of the receiver, the rail becomes twisted/canted. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OneSpeed 0 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Spent some more time looking at them. Looks like a slight cant, and even in the pics I can get it to be more noticeable depending on the angel. Eh, if I wasn't looking for it or hadn't read this thread probably wouldn't have noticed so I'll just deal with it. You can tell alot more when the dust cover is up but seems to straighten out fine when it's snapped down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Pop the cover up, grab ahold of it with both hands and twist/flex it back into contour. Slap the cover back down and you're good. Tony P.S. Granted, I only have one sample, so others may have more extreme issues. Nope. Did not work on mine. The rear of the rail is riveted at a cant onto the top cover. You can see in the attached picture how canted the top cover is to the level rail when it is NOT locked into the back of the receiver. Obviously, once the top cover is locked into the rear of the receiver, the rail becomes twisted/canted. I had the same results so far on two Veprs. I tried to twist them one way to the extreme and relatch, No luck, Twist them the other way and reseat - no significant results either way. Very very slight change, but if you more can than you can twist out you are out of luck it seems. Once the cover is relatched it is forced back into a position which puts the rail back on a cant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 It appears that the problem most likely originates from inconsistent "spring-back" of the sheet metal top cover when it is released from the form die. Could be issues with the substrate material or the forming process, but I believe that is what is causing the randomly twisted top covers. However, the fix takes five seconds. Pop the cover up, grab ahold of it with both hands and twist/flex it back into contour. Slap the cover back down and you're good. Tony P.S. Granted, I only have one sample, so others may have more extreme issues. Thanks for the tip!! Don't know why I didn't think of that, as I always have to bend safety levers on AK to get them to function smoother. Even bent the safety lever on my Vepr 12 to get it to function smoothly. My rail is micro canted. Would have never noticed if wasn't for all these threads. But when I open my dust cover it is twisted, but fine when closed. Now much more aligned, and the slight twist up at the end of the rail is less pronounced. I want to bend it more but I think that is enough for one day. Paranoid cause the plastic rail. Would hate to twist too much and go from negligible amount of twisted rail.. to broke rail. Anyone else who tried this, how much muscle you put into it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thor's Hammer 33 Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Maybe a Saiga12/Vepr12 model Texas Weapons Systems Gen2 rail? ...if there was one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robertmegar 0 Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 When I removed the recoil spring assembly, then closed the dust cover, there "is" an alignment issue. The dust cover does not fit in a "centered" orientation to the receiver- has to be pushed over to the right and down, as noted with other V12 owners it is "off" centered to the left. This was really not noticeable when the spring assy was installed and "latched". But wondered why there was chipping paint in a few "hot spots"... this is what cause me to inspect a bit further. With a "new" purchase, those affected should not have to correct a factory workmanship defect. Warranty issue? or is this "normal" with all Vepr 12 Sounds like my issue. My rail is mildly canted left, but worse, I have moderate to heavy rubbing between the bolt and ej. port side inner "wall" of the dust cover. The bolt is getting shiny in that edge and it is starting to "cut" into the inner surface of the dust cover. It bind to the extent that manual cycling just beyond the "bolt hold open device" is nearly impossible. If you do, there is heavy binding and the bolt may not thrust forward by itself. I may need a new dust cover or maybe hammering that dust cover??? to get it out of the way of the bolt.Pretty disappointing in a $1000 gun, russian or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) When I removed the recoil spring assembly, then closed the dust cover, there "is" an alignment issue. The dust cover does not fit in a "centered" orientation to the receiver- has to be pushed over to the right and down, as noted with other V12 owners it is "off" centered to the left. This was really not noticeable when the spring assy was installed and "latched". But wondered why there was chipping paint in a few "hot spots"... this is what cause me to inspect a bit further. With a "new" purchase, those affected should not have to correct a factory workmanship defect. Warranty issue? or is this "normal" with all Vepr 12 Sounds like my issue. My rail is mildly canted left, but worse, I have moderate to heavy rubbing between the bolt and ej. port side inner "wall" of the dust cover. The bolt is getting shiny in that edge and it is starting to "cut" into the inner surface of the dust cover. It bind to the extent that manual cycling just beyond the "bolt hold open device" is nearly impossible. If you do, there is heavy binding and the bolt may not thrust forward by itself. I may need a new dust cover or maybe hammering that dust cover??? to get it out of the way of the bolt.Pretty disappointing in a $1000 gun, russian or not. The bolt carrier rubbing the dust cover doesnt sound normal at all. I would talk to some one about getting it looked at for warranty issues. They may possibly fix or send you a new one. 1000 or 100, all manufactured items are subject to defects. I would not let that one go. Canted or crooked rails are one thing and its understandable that people will or will not be bothered by that specific issue. But something like you describe is not normal or common. Check into it. Edited November 20, 2012 by Chevyman097 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
doodi1 23 Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Mine looks pretty straight. I'll take a picture and add it to this post later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Any updates on your file Robert? Have you tried to contact anyone about your issue? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lokmeup 30 Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 I originally contacted the TGI and Atlantic Firarms on 11/6/12. I received a prepaid return shipping label on 11/19/2012 and I shipped it out the same day. They received it this Monday (11/26/12) and are shipping it back to me today (11/28/12). So far, I think the service and turn around time is quite good, but only the end results will matter. I will post pics once I receive it in hand. PS. Atlantic Firearms has been extremely helpful the entire time and will have no problem buying form them in the future. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VEPR12 11 Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 I started the DROS on my V-12 last Friday. It looked great. A couple of the gun store employees were eyeing it lustfully. The trigger felt good for never fired and made in Russia. If there any issues, they haven't shown up yet. The rail looked straight. The top cover is a tight fit in a good way. I can't wait to get her out of jail and pop her cherry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
S12KS-K 40 Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 My 030 has a slight cant. I can live with it, especially for the ranges that it's going to be zeroed for. Good thing about the Izhmash > Molot is that the rail is machined out of a solid block of steel... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lokmeup 30 Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I received my warrantied Vepr12 yesterday from TGI. The rail is now level and the red dot is in line with the barrel. Now that the rail is level, you can easily see that the rear sight leaf is canted to the right (opposite of the rail's cant before repair). I have e-mailed TGI regarding this and will post back with an update later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SLR 10 Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) ^ This isn't relevant to the vepr 12s, but my iz-433 has the same cant to the rear sight as well (it is the opposite direction of yours though). A common problem on these types of shotguns? Edit: I was looking at it and the sight leaf itself looks straight. One side of the slider on the leaf has wear marks on where it slides along the rear sight base, so this tells me that the sight leaf sits in the rear sight base crooked. Edited December 6, 2012 by SLR 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 lokmeup - Is it at all apparent how they fixed the canted rail? Did they re-rivit it? Weld old holes? Is the cover refinished? Any clues? It's ashamed they didn't address the rear sight while it was there. Good that they addressed the issue with the rail though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lokmeup 30 Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 They look totally factory from the outside of the receiver. This is what it looks like from the inside. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Looks like a full re-rivet. The ones I have, each have 3 black rivets. Is that most rearward rivet - is that welded up around there or is it just scratched finish? Curious the rivet is black like the OEM, but the other two are silver... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lokmeup 30 Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Those are just scratches on the rear rivet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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