Gnosticguardian 4 Posted December 17, 2010 Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 I would make it more simple. it's not where they're made or how. It's who, Izmash makes them and Izmash is the original manufacturer of the Kalasnikov rifle. though I believe at the time they were named after the city they're in, Ishevsk. This would mean they are not a clone just a "new line" 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BallzFast 4 Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 def not a clone. a clone would not be made in same factory as the ak. my friend bought a new ar-15 and a used ak for 1800 total. he wishes he knew about the saigas sooner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joesmoe 14 Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) Definatley not a clone, more of just the continued evolution of the ak. Edited April 12, 2011 by Calijohn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
N4KVE 14 Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) At the factory in Russia where they make real AK's, the rifle is converted to resemble a hunting or "sporter" rifle to be legally importable into the USA. Once here, many creative people restore the rifle back to be the pistol gripped AK it was supposed to be. If we didn't have such draconian gun laws here, the Russian AK factory wouldn't have had to convert the rifle in the first place. It's converted in Russia, & restored in the US. GARY N4KVE Edited April 12, 2011 by N4KVE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 CLONES!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Yes, but it's not a Tula. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mikhail 5 Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Stamped receiver made by Hugo Schmeisser, when he worked at Izhmash. Carbine "Saiga" was made in 1974 to reduce the herd of antelope in Kazakhstan. Originally caliber carbine was 5.6X39. Hunting modification of the "Saiga" in Russia do not have the pistol grip. Sorry for the English. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Mivet 6 Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 All the above is true! I kind of get irked when I walk into a gun store and they sell Wasrs as Ak-47's. Then you must live a really irked life sir, because as far as I know, I have never, ever, in my life, walked into a gun store and saw anyone selling an AK-47. If you don't understand the difference between what constitutes a real AK-47, and what we can buy here, because of our "Laws" designed to protect us, then you will never be happy, ever. Just accept what we "Sheeple" are allowed to own, as designated by "Big Brother" and be happy, in fact, be double plus happy about it. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Strawdawg 1 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) If you take a '66 Pontiac Tempest, and plug a 389 into it plus some GTO badges, it is deemed a a GTO clone or replica even tho you duplicated the trim package, etc. It was made on the same assembly line by the same workers during the same run and is identical to the eye. It might even be built better, but, it does not matter. It is still a clone in the eye of the Collector. Same with anything else. Being a clone does not make it inferior, and it may make it superior to a well worn original. But, it is still a clone of the original. Same with our guns. Edited February 14, 2012 by Strawdawg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 It's more like buying a jeep in 2wd instead of 4wd and initially dressed up like a station wagon. Both (receiver and barrel / engine and chassis) are from the same factory and of the same quality, but one has a liile more factory installled equipment than the other. Oh! And only police and military can have the 4wd if made after may of 86. [Hmmm? Need to find me a Scrambler CJ8!] Macbeau sends... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Strawdawg 1 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I would not be surprised to find the Saiga is built better than the AK... Never figured out why a jeep was built 2wd, but, I guess it works better at the mall? Find me one too. I need one for shooting out of. Almost lost the rest of my hearing when I did not get the barrel far enuf out the window when I pegged a bobcat leaning across to the passenger window. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rocketfoot 29 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) I think AK is a 'platform' just like AR is. Within the AK Platform, there are many variants. Saiga is a variant with a pure bloodline whereas many other variants are not. I also think the only way to have a clone is to build an AK or AR variant to resemble some well know form that they once had such as a Vietnam era CAR-15 or a Desert Storm era Tabuk...or maybe a Red Dawn Maadi. Those to me would be clones. Otherwise it's all good! Saigas are not clones but rather well built AK variants. Edited February 15, 2012 by rocketfoot 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey 21 Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) If you take a '66 Pontiac Tempest, and plug a 389 into it plus some GTO badges, it is deemed a a GTO clone or replica even tho you duplicated the trim package, etc. It was made on the same assembly line by the same workers during the same run and is identical to the eye. It might even be built better, but, it does not matter. It is still a clone in the eye of the Collector. Same with anything else. Being a clone does not make it inferior, and it may make it superior to a well worn original. But, it is still a clone of the original. Same with our guns. If that Tempest had everything EXACTLY identical to the GTO and came off the same EXACT OEM assemble line with those parts - except for the hood, bumpers, and fenders it would still be a GTO underneath but in a different wrapping. Just to get around insurance companies and worried parents. Or you can look at it as the GTO has a bunch of smog and emissions parts added - hampering its true potential. The Saigas are exactly that, they had their hoods, fenders, and bumpers replaced with "hunting / sporting visuals", in the same factory and on the same lines. Or had a bunch of smog and emission parts slapped on to it. All to get around the ridiculous U.S. laws on them and the anti gun nuts. Might as well say you have a real AK in sheep's clothing. Or you could say you have an AK variant. eehh to each their own in the end we all have very well made rifles from IZHMASH. And with a little love they can be made to shine again. Edited April 24, 2012 by Whiskey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Strawdawg 1 Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Roll it across the auction floor and see how many people consider it to be a GTO No argument on the quality of the Saiga....some how, I suspect AK collectors will not consider it in the same light as an AK even tho it is probably a better weapon than most AKs that have been USAfied. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
longhorn03 10 Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Don't think clone is the right word. It's Russian made. But the whole deal why the ak-47 was so revolutionary was that it was spitting out sustained automatic fire of a rifle round, not a sub-machine gun/pistol round. Avtomat Kalashnikova . I don't know Russian but I assume Avtomat MeAns automatic. So if it's not automatic, and doesn't have AK and isn't Russian built means it's nit an ak. Read the book that ca,e out a coouple years back about the AK. Good suff. I think it's called the gun? Could be mistaken. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey 21 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Roll it across the auction floor and see how many people consider it to be a GTO No argument on the quality of the Saiga....some how, I suspect AK collectors will not consider it in the same light as an AK even tho it is probably a better weapon than most AKs that have been USAfied. Oh I agree there would be a lot. People love to pay for the badges when it comes to cars lol. How many would have just wanted to get under the insurance radar? It would probably be a lot also. True I see where you are coming from on the AK collectors P.O.V. Consider the Colt 1911. The Colt 1911 models true diehards will only consider a Colt 1911 the true and only real 1911 and all the others clones. What if Colt made a smogged down version of its 1911? Imo I'm sure the purists would still consider purchasing one and bringing it back to it original luster over one of the "clones". I also agree that the word clone is no where near to be used for the Saigas. Now a Bulgarian, Chinese, Philippines, Poland, Yugo, etc etc etc (the list goes on) would be considered clones seeing that they did not come off the factory line. Are some of these clone rifles desired over other? sure some are but when I show people my Saigas I always get "Wow, this is Russian!?" with an excited look on their faces. Seems Saigas will hold their value for now (until the law changes), with being Made in Russia still desired over the others. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kick'em 0 Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Is a Colt AR a clone of a M16? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
red308 54 Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 If my understanding is correct, weren't the first AK's milled as opposed to stamped? The first AK was a stamped receiver then they went to milled. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breid1970 327 Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 I like clones. I think my exwife might have been a clone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mostholycerebus 415 Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 My neighbor is building a 1969 Camaro Z28 dual-carb 302. The body came from the factory as an RS. He using all original factory parts, original paint, everything to make it as authentic as possible. Many collectors consider it a clone, because it did not come from the factory in full Z28 trim. How does this affect the saiga? Probably doesnt, go shoot it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richUK 90 Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 (edited) As long as it feeds and fires reliably what does it matter?.They are made on the same production lines as military AK variants and surely thats good pedigree in anyones books.Its different for us in the UK as our Saigas come in already AK'ed,my MK/AK-104 had the 104 black polymer furniture,flash hider,1000m 'half tick' rear sight and black polymer 30r mags from the factory,so despite not being semi auto they are pretty damn close to an AK in terms of looks and build.It also has a dimpled receiver and doesnt put a ring around the neck of the case when fired. I know the pics of a 105 but this shows how we can buy them from the factory via the UK importer, Rusmilitary. Edited May 8, 2013 by UKAK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 Poll Closed! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 haha been a long run! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breid1970 327 Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 Oh its true. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richUK 90 Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 I Think I'm A Clone Now!!!....Brilliant Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breid1970 327 Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 /bow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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