justinmcmillion 77 Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Ive been brainstorming on how turn the s12 into a railed war machine. I think Ive got most everything figured out minus the rear of the gun. Issues I face. A. figuring out how to make it easy to disassemble B. making it light weight C. making it easy to install D. Mounting it securely to the receiver in the rear. If I can overcome all of these issues I think this thing would be wicked. You will have to replace some factory components on your gun for this to work. The exoskeleton would be thin metal similar to that of the handguard on an AMD-65 Would be easier to make as a flat top but I liked the fixed sights I hopefully will start a prototype soon and if all goes well and I feel that all issues have been addressed I will then put it through torture testing. I am mainly doing this just for fun/project but if it does turn out well how many people would be interested in a setup like this? Tell me what you think (other than I have too much time on my hands) I started by drawing a 3D model of the saiga 12 then built around it. First prototype drawing, has a rounded hand guard and flash light built in.. Second prototype drawing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gtnichols 51 Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) Super Sweet, Sign me up! I like both, but the flashlight one is my Favorite so far Edited December 5, 2009 by Gas Giant Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I'd like to see something like the slide stock a'la H&K MP5 style...digging the flashlight HG too! Nice work! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mscottrogers 56 Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I'm surprised no one has thought of this before to solve the front handguard problem and site radius problem. You could adapt this to all ak style rifles. I would defintiely be interested. Especially if its under $250. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Interesting look, the flashlight handguard is novel. A rubber butt pad is a must. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deussne 38 Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 How would you take this thing apart in order to clean it? (Looking at your "concept" its one solid piece that even replaces the dust cover)You got to get rid of the dust cover replacement idea, or put a hinge in the middle where the rear section can swing up. (but that makes the price go up and complicates things too much) Remember AK = Simplicity. I bet an 8 year old boy/girl from Africa could operate one. Another ting, those sights are too tall/sharp. I would not want any sharp edges on a shotgun/rifle/pistol. Sorry Im not trying to be mean but rather give you some constructive criticizm. P.S. What are you using to draw these things up. M.S. Paint? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DeMilled 5 Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Sorry Im not trying to be mean but rather give you some constructive criticizm. P.S. What are you using to draw these things up. M.S. Paint? Constructive, huh? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Very imaginative. I like it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Young 175 Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I'm liking the concept, and put me down for the flashlight HG, too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gpqueen 545 Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I like it. It would have to be cost effective for most people to buy. Any idea of potential cost? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
big lumber 9 Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 sign me up for one!! it looks kinda like the fn scar.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
justinmcmillion 77 Posted December 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) Thanks for all the comments. To answer a couple questions, as for disasbembly I was thinking about using a stock similar to the g36c Or maybe a sig 556 classic or scar Where the hinge is on the far side so that when folded it exposes the opening in the rear. Of course the hinged mechanism is all that needs be made and it can me made to accept all ace stocks. Ill draw this up soon. Then if this was my gun I would install a removable charging handle like the one on a sig 556 (possible left handed) and simply remove the spring take the charging handle out and slide the bolt carrier out the rear of the gun. For mass production this wont work, so there is still some brainstorming left here. Any and all suggestions and ideas are welcome. I thought about the hinged upper idea but Simplicity, strength and retaining a zero are all very important. Not to mention cost. Deussne, The sights were drawn on for looks, realistically and ideally this would be a flat top and accept all BUIS, however if enough people are interested in the fixed sights and all goes well I might look into make one of each. There is no scale to the sights draw (freehanded) but if the were permanant I would have to decide between ar-15 heighth or maybe that of a sig 556 (lower). These were drawn in google sketchup. Your comments are most helpfull to aid in going forward with my design and are much appreciated. I cannot make any estimate on price, the first prototype will be all handmade on the lathe and mill, then if a success will be CNC'ed. I will keep cost down as much as possible but this is much more than a quad rail... Its a entire upper receiver. I will redraw the 1st prototype with the flashlight, I went away from this design originally because I thought some people might not like it. The flashlight I was designing it for is a streamlight tlr-1 However since you guys seem to like the Idea i might adapt it to others flash lights as well.. any opinions on this? Thanks once again for all the comments, and tell me how this could better suit you. Justin Edited December 6, 2009 by J_Mac Quote Link to post Share on other sites
justinmcmillion 77 Posted December 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Maybe the hinge could be similar to this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scarbrough68289 76 Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Looks like a pretty cool idea you got there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) looks cool, you're pretty good with sketchup, intersect everything in the front of that model to remove unwanted lines from flat surfaces on the front of the handguard btw, you can get images in to models in sketchup so you could trace something such as a pistol grip or trigger guard. Edited December 6, 2009 by Fallschirmjager667 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Kinda looks like you're designing a whole new gun... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 It would definitely make 922r Compliance easy! No second guessing if you have enough parts on your shotty! My concern would be the weight of the thing as there seems to be quite a bit of aluminum or whatever you end up using! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mscottrogers 56 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 I bet it would be very similar in weight to putting on the folder, quad rails and aluminum stock I have as it would replace the steal rear cover for aluminum. I would prefer the full flat top and using flip ups. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
justinmcmillion 77 Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 I bet it would be very similar in weight to putting on the folder, quad rails and aluminum stock I have as it would replace the steal rear cover for aluminum. I would prefer the full flat top and using flip ups. I agree 100% weight would be very similar to a quad rail and accessories and the flat top would be easier to manufacture and be cheaper, also allowing the end user to have more options. Flat top will be first made Also for you guys that have already welded h&k sights on your guns (like me) don't worry this will still work for you. Just be patient and see how. Its part of the design I cant show because it is the real secret. THanks JMAC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
justinmcmillion 77 Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Heres what the flat top with flashlight would look like. I thought that instead of rounding the lower hand guard you could just put rail covers over the picatinny. Thanks again for looking JMac Quote Link to post Share on other sites
justinmcmillion 77 Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 looks cool, you're pretty good with sketchup, intersect everything in the front of that model to remove unwanted lines from flat surfaces on the front of the handguard btw, you can get images in to models in sketchup so you could trace something such as a pistol grip or trigger guard. Thanks, when I was in school I mostly used Inventor, now that I'm out and my school version expired (and to be legal...) I had to switch to sketchup. Its really a decent program and much simpler to use for the beginner than any CAD software. I didn't know that about the images, i will have to try that, thanks for the tips. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silverbullet 0 Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vitamink 90 Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 i was just gonna post this without the preface, but i figured everyone would flip out so i'll just explain whats up... this is a joke and meant only as a joke. that being said... Hasn't a company already made this? I love being me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
diamondback 56 Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Looks like a Google SketchUp model, I'm using it myself for some projects. Not a true CAD/CAM program, but for quick & dirty 3d visualization it's pretty good. The price is certainly right... @Original Poster: have some questions, sending via PM. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stiletto raggio 20 Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Make it happen. Please. Options are good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silverbullet 0 Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 I've seen the (Alliance?) design. I LIKE it. The only problem is it would be way too easy to just buy it... I prefer to waste a bunch of time and money trying to do things my own way... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brickfield mfg 86 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) Have you thought of hinging the area over the action like the Krinkov? That would allow you to remove the bolt carrier in a normal fashion. Eveything else looks good!!! Edited December 13, 2009 by 7.62m43 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
justinmcmillion 77 Posted December 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Have you thought of hinging the area over the action like the Krinkov? That would allow you to remove the bolt carrier in a normal fashion. Eveything else looks good!!! Yes but I want you use a solid rail, I was thinking of hinging it at the gas block, but this project will be pushed to the side until the upper hand guard holder and rail mount is in production. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FORKLIFT352 63 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 I like it! And would get one. All I would need is 3 rails but 4 is fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mgconnor13 206 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 hinged cover probably be the easier thing to do. a rear truion/ adapter for the stock be a way to do your stock so you could fold it or attach what ever you want for a stock. I have a stream light tlr-1 and I like it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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