SHTF ammo - have enough?

[CBR Shadow 53]

So I only recently bought my Saiga 12, but I'm stocking up on some ammo for a SHTF situation. How much do you currently have at your immediate disposal? How much do you consider necessary for a possible SHTF situation? What would you say the "Ideal" combination of bird shot, buck, slugs, etc and quantities? I just filled an ammo box with 125 rounds of Federal birdshot. I'm thinking of stocking up on some slugs next.

Also, does ammo go bad over time? I"m worried about "saving" ammo and it becoming less reliable over time - is this a legitimate concern?

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

So I only recently bought my Saiga 12, but I'm stocking up on some ammo for a SHTF situation. How much do you currently have at your immediate disposal? How much do you consider necessary for a possible SHTF situation? What would you say the "Ideal" combination of bird shot, buck, slugs, etc and quantities? I just filled an ammo box with 125 rounds of Federal birdshot. I'm thinking of stocking up on some slugs next.

Also, does ammo go bad over time? I"m worried about "saving" ammo and it becoming less reliable over time - is this a legitimate concern?

 

Well, as much ammo as you can carry...

 

Birdshot is for mag-dumps and birds, don't try to use it for anything else.

 

Ammo DOES go bad over time but we are talking a few decades here as long as it's kept dry and at a reasonably constant temperature.

 

For slugs, I use Remington slugger. Decently cheap and reliable, buckshot, I choose 0 Buck but I've got a few magnum shells of 00 Buck and 000 Buck for the larger four-legged threats.

[tokinshitload 12]

I read somewhere that for a SHTF scenario you should have 1000 rounds for each caliber of firearm you own, and 500 for a shotgun. I think that is reasonable if you understand that ammunition will only be used for defense and hunting, and not target shooting. If you are worried about SHTF I would suggest learning reloading, trapping, bow-hunting and canning/smoking. The basic survival triangle is food,water, and someway to keep you food and water. If anyone of those legs fail you will most likely die.

Personally, I only keep 100 to 200 rounds of loaded ammunition for each caliber(not including .22), but I have the primers,powder,lead,and hulls/casings to do several thousand round in any caliber if needed. I wouldn't consider a siaga 12 a good SHTF longterm firearm because of parts availability, and number of parts contained. I do consider it a good short term urban war type firearm. For SHTF consider a single shot firearm or shotgun with few moving parts, or even a black-powder/flintlock firearm.

Remember, we can kill with sticks and spears; it is the short term protection from heavily armed warlords and zombies that will kill you and steal your caviar and beer that I worry about. Remember Katrina?!

xacex

Edited July 12, 2011 by xacex

[THEMRMITCH 3]

Let's say I have enough. Can cover cases of 26 different calibers.

[yakdung 2,926]

Ten thousand plus rounds either SPAM can ammo or stored in military issue ammo cans with desiccant. Ammo will not go bad in your lifetime if stored in a cool dry place.

 

Yakdung

Edited July 12, 2011 by yakdung

[Scott Kenny 144]

I figure either 1000 rounds of whatever your preferred ammo per caliber per gun is about right, but only 500 or so shotgun and pistol. This goes down if you have reloading equipment, but never less than 500 rifle/250 pistol.

 

Why only 500 rounds of pistol? Because when SHTF, all a pistol is for is to fight your way back to the long gun that you never should have put down in the first place, and a shotgun is a long gun for pistol engagement ranges. Plus shotgun ammo is heavy and bulky.

 

If your pistol has run dry, you're up shit creek without a paddle. That's why you should have several good blades. A couple midsized folders (3-4" blade), like a Spyderco or a Benchmade (and at least one that you can open one-handed), probably a rescue tool (seatbelt cutter and car window breaker), and one big (7"+) blade per person. The humble E-tool is always a good backup since not a lot of people consider it a weapon in times of relative peace like we have now, and if you live out in the sticks, nobody looks twice at a hatchet, either.

 

I also have a couple bigger blades, but those normally hang out on my wall. Functional steel is not cheap, even when made in China, but a competent smith can make you a brutally functional piece out of a truck spring. Not pretty, but a truck-spring gladius will put down anything short of a pissed-off bear if you put it in the right spot. Personally, I like a little more pretty in my tools, so cable damascus or true damascus steel. Or a Japanese-style blade with the temper line, but that's not cheap in the slightest.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Shit, I'd have to go count.

 

I've several thousand rounds of 7.62x39, ~650 rnds of .308, a few hundred of mixed 12-ga slugs and buck, ~2k .22LR, and ~500 10mm auto.

 

I'll be getting started reloading, (.308 and 10mm primarily), in the next couple months. Then my stockpiling can truly begin.

[sickness 89]

I agree with the minimum of 1000 rifle rounds for a SHTF situation. For a shotgun, things are a bit different.

 

For a shotgun that I was going to use as an all-around gun, I guess I would grab 1000 remington sluggers. These have reasonable accuracy, and you can engage targets at 100 yds with them, which is certainly beyond the range of a pistol or buckshot. Then I'd probably keep 500 rds of buck around for the short range engagements.

 

The thing is, that plan sucks. 1000 sluggers is expensive. A quick search for sluggers says that 100 rds will cost ya about $85 bucks. So 85x10 = $850.

 

For that $850, you can pick up a Saiga rifle in 5.45x39 for $350, and a 1080 rd spam can of ammo for another $150 or so... and you

still have money left over for conversion, optics, or whatever. And a 5.45x39 will be more useful out at ranges past what those sluggers would do for you.

 

I currently have 5000 rounds of milsurp 308 for my FAL, and 2000 rds of Rio buckshot for my S12. Not sure how much .223 I have, but it is alot .. and I don't even have a .223 rifle anymore! Just because it is cheap, I plan on getting 10,000 rds of 5.45x39, and as soon as I see some more NATO-made 308 for a good price, I'm going to add some more of that too.

 

I believe in having enough to trade with the good guys as well as shoot at the bad guys.

[Parson Julabee Jones 32]

So I only recently bought my Saiga 12, but I'm stocking up on some ammo for a SHTF situation. How much do you currently have at your immediate disposal? How much do you consider necessary for a possible SHTF situation? What would you say the "Ideal" combination of bird shot, buck, slugs, etc and quantities? I just filled an ammo box with 125 rounds of Federal birdshot. I'm thinking of stocking up on some slugs next.

Also, does ammo go bad over time? I"m worried about "saving" ammo and it becoming less reliable over time - is this a legitimate concern?

 

 

I keep my guns, especially my shot guns, minimally equipped, that is pretty much with lights and slings only. I have added on lengths of rail (for red dots, etc., if needed), but they're relieved so I can always see the bead or iron sights. My rifles are only slightly more dressed up. That gives me extra money to put into more guns, and ammo and reloading.

 

 

I do my best to buy two shells or bullets for every one I shoot, so since I shoot a lot, my ammo supply is steadily building. Right now, a rough guess gives me 1500 rounds of 7.62x39, 1200 of .223, 1,000 of .22 mag, 1500 of 9mm, 200 of .308, 3 or 4 thousand of .22LR, a couple hundred each of .44 mag, .38's and .357's, and 300 .22-250. For shotguns I keep 6 or 8 hundred #2, #4 or BB lead shot, a couple hundred bulk #7 or 8, and a couple hundred each of 00 buck, and #4 buck, as well as a couple hundred slugs, lots of 3 inch buck and slugs, and even a small supply of door breachers. I think that's most of what comprises my small stock. I do keep 25 pounds of lead, several hundred hulls and primers, and several pounds of powder, but that stuff is for winter time reloading therapy.

 

Stocking up on ammo can quickly turn into a never ending cycle, but if ever we enter into troubles, ammo can be used, sold or bartered, so I view it as an investment in any case.

[Guns Are Great 140]

Ammo Storage = Air tight containers, desicant, O2 absorbders, cool dry place to store it and your good for 50-75 years maybe longer.

 

 

[OBITUARY 12]

.22 rifle and an assload of rounds. Easy to find also

[BpS12 512]

Remember, SHtF is usually temporary and rarely becomes a TEOTWAWKI. In a SHtF you may have to bug out(evacuate). Esp, if you live in a High Risk/Indenfencible location. There are three levels to prepare for, Bugging out on foot, in a vehicle, and staying put("Last Stand"). Always start with the "on foot" and build from there.

 

Have, AT LEAST, enough ammo for all the mags/etc that you can comfortably carry on your person/LBE, for each of your designated SHtF firearms. AND one full reload of each in a seperate water tight bag in case you have to stash/dump/trade it.

 

Expl.- For the S12, I have enough mags(and one drum plus the sidesaddle) for up to 117 rounds, with another 120 in another bag, in my pack. A mix of slugs(for range) and 00buck for CQB. I also have 80rnds of .45 and 40rnds of .357, divided evenly(+/-) in mags/speadloaders and the ammo bag. I don't have an exact weight, but by feel, when fully loaded, I'm still under what our Soldiers have to carry in combat. Which is a damn good thing since I'm not in that kind of shape anymore, lol.

 

For back up weapons I like the E-tool/Machete combo. I learned to fight Axe and Sword in the SCA and there is little difference in the style. I have a Cetma Bayonet for a fixed blade knife and several progressively smaller folders tucked about my gear.

 

Sorry, got side tracked, lol.

 

Once you have your "On Foot" gear assembled then start on your Vehicular Bug Out. I figure you should have, AT LEAST, twice what your "On Foot" quantities are. Remember, this stuff you may have to leave behind if your situation goes to foot, ie, car dies/walking around a checkpoint. After that you can worry about the serious stockpiling for the "Last Stand", which gets into the "1000s of rounds".

 

Note, this all applies to every member of your family/group as well. Including any kid able to carry a .22. I don't believe in "defenceless children". We learn best, when we learn young. My daughter was 4 when she had shot every gun I owned(with some help at times) but grew up being both accurate and responsible.

 

Good luck and have fun. Prepping for SHtF may be the most useful/rewarding hobby you will ever have, lol.

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

Shotgun ammo is big, heavy and has a limited range. If you are stocking up, get rifle ammo first, then pistol, then shotgun.

 

Surplus 7.62x39 or 5.45 is cheaper than it costs to reload once fired cases right now. If you are going to stockpile, that is where you will get the best value since it has gone up in price faster than our dollar has lost ground to inflation.

 

Rimfire is small, lightweight, easy to carry and will put food on your table, keep heads down and you can buy a couple thousand rounds for under $100. But keep it dry... it isn't waterproof like most centerfire cartridges.

 

Handguns are easily concealed and don't scream to others that you are a direct threat if you are in a populated area.

 

[xracer09 4]

since your asking about the S-12, here is what I did.

 

I keep 1000 round combo of slug and 00 around.

 

As such, my shotty will run those as quick as I can squeeze the trigger

in any mix I toss into it. (find the right combo that works for you.

 

I dont subscribe to the idea of making a S-12 into a bird gun.

FWIW, it was designed to be a military weapon, not to keep killer quail or duck in check.

[BpS12 512]

since your asking about the S-12, here is what I did.

 

I keep 1000 round combo of slug and 00 around.

 

As such, my shotty will run those as quick as I can squeeze the trigger

in any mix I toss into it. (find the right combo that works for you.

 

I dont subscribe to the idea of making a S-12 into a bird gun.

FWIW, it was designed to be a military weapon, not to keep killer quail or duck in check.

 

He, he,

It's that multipurpose thing, IE, "if you can only have one", I think the S12 is the best for ALL around use. I do have a single shot 20ga, for hunting, now that I inherited it.

[chaseface 41]

I normally have about 500rds of .308, 250rds of 45acp, and 500 12guage mixed slugs/bird/buck. Is that enough?? NO!! But, that's all I've got the money for right now. When I have more cash I will buy reloading equipment to really stack up. Especially on 308. That stuff is expensive, but its a great long range round that works perfect in my Saiga 308 battle rifle and my deer rifle.

[evergreenkid29 14]

I used to think I did not have enough ammo on hand but after reading here I might have to much. I but a bunch several years ago right before it begin to spike in price so I got real lucky, and I bought a bunch from a fellow who was moving and did not want to take much with him. But I always figured I could trade ammo for stuff when the SHTF it will be another form of money. I have one safe full of ammo all in cans with silica bags in the cans and several dehumidifers in the safe.I just hope I never have to bug out on foot and leave it all behind with my guns and home.

 

Does anybody know anything about under ground storage for ammo??

Edited July 12, 2011 by vermontmadman

[tokinshitload 12]

I used to keep several thousands of round of .22 and 7.62x39 stored. I stored it in ammo cans with desiccant in the garage which is insulated . 15 tears later started to pull out some of that stockpile( last ammo scare), and ran into some problems. Half of the .22lr was not cycling my guns properly. All of the 7.62x39 would not cycle a semi auto. This is why I keep enough for a bug-out scenario on hand and loaded. On the other hand I rotate through gunpowder and primers. If you store powder and primers it takes less space, and if the powder looses some of its power over many years of storage you can adjust your load up. My loading equipment is on a portable bench that could be carried by hand if needed. If you load shotgun you could use anything as a projectile, even pea gravel or broken glass if needed.

Going to load up some 45acp tonight, 200 rounds takes me about an hour of my time.

xacex

I used to think I did not have enough ammo on hand but after reading here I might have to much. I but a bunch several years ago right before it begin to spike in price so I got real lucky, and I bought a bunch from a fellow who was moving and did not want to take much with him. But I always figured I could trade ammo for stuff when the SHTF it will be another form of money. I have one safe full of ammo all in cans with silica bags in the cans and several dehumidifiers in the safe.I just hope I never have to bug out on foot and leave it all behind with my guns and home.

 

Does anybody know anything about under ground storage for ammo??

[RobRez 1,895]

SHTF scenarios can be quite diverse. From a week of riots to no more anything! The worst case is that you will never be able to get any MORE ammo, so I keep LOTS of ammo on hand and rotate my stock. If it is a bug-out type of situation, you can only take as much as you can carry, as opposed to holding a fortified position next to your pile of ammo.

I keep no lees than 500 rounds of 00 buckshot, 500 slugs and 500 birdshot for my shotgun. If it were a Worst Case, and I wasn't bugging-out, I think I would want more.

I also keep at least 2000 rounds of my other calibers though. Jeezum, I must have 10,000 rounds of .22 ammo!

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Generally I just try to keep my regular ammo boxes full

 

 

Then there is the actual reserve stock set aside.

Suffice it to say, several thousand of each caliber I own, along with mags and parts.

[msrdiver 42]

I also have a full year of daily vitamins and antidiarhea pills in the bug out bag as wellas tooth pasted and such. In the event of a EOTWAWKI event I suggest mountains of toilet paper in stock. He who has tp also will have a woman. She can then help Sherpa all the heavy ammo you have.

[Yoshi 87]

I used to think a thousand rounds for the long guns and a few hundred for the handguns was plenty good, until I got there. I dont know if its a obsession or what but when it comes to ammo (and magazines) Im not sure what "enough" is.

[tokinshitload 12]

He who has tp also will have a woman. She can then help Sherpa all the heavy ammo you have.

 

LOL, I want a Sherpa, but do you really want the whine. That would need to be a burly woman to carry all my crap!

xacex

[Marc 147]

My 12ga shotgun ammo stock for a SHTF, a box or 2 of #7 birdshot, a box or 2 of 3" pheasant loads, a box or 2 of 3" turkey loads, a few boxes of 00 buckshot, (I do have a 250 rnd case of #4 buckshot but only because I got a good deal on it) and a few boxes of slugs.

 

My 20ga ammo stock is pretty much the same with the exception of the buckshot is #3 buck.

 

Unless someone is in my HOUSE and I think that my pistol won't get them out rapidly, my shotgun will one of a couple guns that will be for putting meat on the table...the above ammo supply will last for a very long time when used in conjunction with a .22 (approx 10,000 rnds) for small game and several rifles that I have a few hundred rounds of suitable hunting ammo for each. I quit keeping track of my pistol and rifle fighting ammo some time ago, I also reload for almost every caliber that I have a gun for so I have plenty of powder, primers and lead for casting bullets.

 

But I live in the country, your situation and what your perceived SHTF scenario will dictate what you believe to be an a good stock of ammo is.

 

If you live in an urban/city type setting then having to fighting off the looters and moochers is a likely SHTF scenario, and if a 12ga is your only gun then I would focus on stocking 00 buck and slugs in probably a 3 to 1, buck to slug ratio...maybe a 2 to 1 ratio. I would avoid stocking Foster slugs and get Brenneke slugs, especially if I was preparing to use my shotgun to shoot stuff at 100+ yards. Brenneke type slugs retain velocity and energy farther downrange then foster slugs do.

[20nickels 21]

Do the math, but if you made this investment;

1x fired hulls

Lee 18 cav buckshot mould

lead furnace

lead

Lee shotshell press

Primers, wads, powder, etc.

 

For an upfront investment you can save on buckshot for a lifetime of shooting. You cannot of course count your time.

[paprotective 362]

I decided to have my FLC with 6 AR mags and 4 AR308 mags and a SAW200 pouch with an extra 280 5.56, 100 308 rounds, and 100 9mm rounds.. that and carrying an AR in my hand with a mag, and the 308 AR slung on my back I can't run.. but I can walk.. total weight of LOAD is 20 for the FLC and 18 for the 2 rifles..

 

I have 4 pistol mags of 9mm and agree with the other poster about FALLING BACK to smaller cals..

 

Sitting on about 900 of the 5.56/223 and 400 of the 308 currently.. both in mil-cans with desiccant.

 

will be ordering more soon of all 3 cals..

 

crap I forgot the tarp (for shelter) and food.. duh..

 

 

Al

[schultze13 354]

Well, I will add my two cents to this topic if you have one S-12 and it is going to be your HD/SHTF gun you shoud have 500 round for that gun I would say 350 buck to 150 slugs is a good mix I would also try to keep 500-1000 bird shot for praticing and if you have to you can make wax slugs of what ever the situation calls for out of them. Also you will need to keep ATLEAST 10 mags per gun cause without mags all you have is a singleshot. I would recommand 8 high cap.(8-12rd) mags and atleast 2 factory 5rd mags because the factory mag almost never fail . Now this is a min. to have it does not hurt to have more you can always use it to barter with if SHTF I would also recommand if you can a second S-12 because parts are hard to come by for a S-12 and to stock proper matainance materials this is the stuff always over looked..

[GREYLUPO 358]

This is just my SHTF .308 ammo, around 3000 rounds of surplus and about 250 of match. I dont shoot it, just stock it.

 

.45 - about 600 rounds, not enough

 

12 gauge - 1000 Federal 00 buck shells and 50 Remmy slugger shells

 

 

Thats it. Id like more but damn everything cost money lol. Im off to a good start.

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

Trigger discipline is a lot cheaper than a 10,000 round ammo stockpile!

 

Whatever you have for SHTF won't be enough if you squander it! You won't likely be doing mag dumps into one target when your life depends on your rounds lasting.

 

That said, I am a firm believer in buying cheap surplus ammo first and then stocking up on the good specialty stuff (top end hollowpoints, slugs, buckshot, API etc.). At $1.00+ a round for buckshot, long range match ammo or slugs, you can buy 5 rounds of 7.62x39. If it is TEOTWAWKI, the 5 rounds of 7.62x39 is likely going to be more useful because it is equal to 5 meals or saving your life 5 times (unless it is a pea shooter round like .22 or .25 ACP which may take all 5 rounds to put a target down reliably and safely).

 

When there is no more supply, a gun is a gun, whether a $10,000 Blaser or a $300 AK; and a round is a round. You aren't going to trade for $9700 more worth of food, gas, antibiotics or clothing value between the two when utility becomes a necessity over sparkly shiny things. Additionally, a high end gun with 10 rounds of compatible ammo is not as attractive as a mid tier gun with 1000 rounds of compatible ammo.

Edited July 13, 2011 by BuffetDestroyer

[haugpatr 972]

I am surprised nobody has stocked up on the 7.62x54R. This stuff is cheap and in spam cans. I bought a real nice 91/30 Nagant for $80 at a gun show. Also have some of the M44 carbines. This is a great high power round and if you miss the fireball might get them!

 

 

The ammo would be $90 delivered for a 440 round spam can, so for $170 you get so much value. Save your 308 for your long range shots/hunting, but if you need high power at close range (zombies on riding lawnmowers), this is a great value!

 

I got a real good deal on my rifle, but they are readily available for less than $100.

Edited July 19, 2011 by HOG76