9-11: Never Forget

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Kinda hard to believe it's been 8 years. It feels like yesterday. I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing.........and I have a horrible memory.

[IndyArms 10,186]

I could comment on what we should never FORGET about 9/11... but it would send this thread either to the fight club or the trash can...

 

I will just hold the memories of the INNOCENT SOULS that were murdered on that day... The rest I will keep to myself...

 

[nycGUNguy 61]

It's hard to forget. Looking downtown on 6th ave from midtown there is that empty space... Working in Manhattan, everything seems normal until you catch a glimpse of that empty space in the sky. Let us all set aside our petty differences and remember what makes us alike...family, friends, life!

 

Never Forget!

 

IBEW Local 3 NYC (17 Lost)

nyclu3

[David Mark 2,452]

I'm glad you posted this 22 Shooter.

A lot of brave men have given there lives delivering some payback to the bastards that perpetrated that event.

And they still are.

 

We should never forget.

[Ryann 8]

Yep, I remember everything about that day as well! I can't believe it's been 8 years already!!! I also remeber the day that I heard pres. Bush on the radio say "We are officially at war..." That was strange, I wondered how that would effect America.

Today is (oddly enough) my wedding anniversary to EricInMaryland.

There's no chance of us ever forgetting the date!

[camon 233]

Ah yes 9/11. I was at school and it was like 7am when this kid that always told the biggest BS stories came up and said that someone flew planes into NY and the pentagon. We told him to GTFO. After that I remember in our Library hallway they had TV's playing the news and some reporter was running around downtown LA making it look like a huge panic talking about how the major downtown area had been evacuated and I remember we all realized at that point that he was serious.

 

I don't really remember feeling anything. My family is nowhere near NY and my generation has been so desensitized by TV, Video Games, and the like that it was just like a scene from any old movie.

 

Oh I do remember laughing my ass off when the news brought up the "big 4" being Bin Laden, Saddam, Kim Jong Ill, and I believe it was Saudi's leader. And they were all denying the attacks.

 

Mainly I remember feeling anger towards the FCC for blacklisting songs because they "resembled 9/11."

[read_the_wall 614]

"Kinda hard to believe it's been 8 years. It feels like yesterday. I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing.........and I have a horrible memory."

 

Amen....

[scoutjoe 276]

"And some went down like heros in that Pennsylvania field.."

 

 

Never forget 9-11

[nycGUNguy 61]

Watching the reading of the names in NYC, so many names from all over... Please include the names from the Pentagon, the field in Pennsylvania, the battlefields of Afganistan and Iraq. Let us all remember...

 

nyclu3

[Juggernaut 11,054]

I'll never forget....

 

And I will never forget this quote from our current president....

[Vultite 57]

 

 

 

[Vultite 57]

Edited September 11, 2009 by Vultite

[Rockina 60]

Today is a special day a day of remembrances and reflection and we mourn the losses from that very tragic day.

 

But we cannot and should not (today especially) forget the sacrifices of the countless AMERICANS around the globe, that continue even today!

 

And we should never be afraid to stand up for freedom and the precious rights that have been bought and paid for with AMERICAN sweat, blood and lives.......NEVER , NEVER FORGET FREEDOM ISNT FREE.

[Reverendfranz 160]

I agree, NEVER FORGET. A day of great loss for us all, 9/11.

[G O B 3,516]

Never FORGET, and never FORGIVE!

[6500rpm 670]

This is our generations Pearl Harbor. There is no forgetting, no forgiving. That day is burned into my memory forever-every day. Because of that day, several kids that I feel I helped raise are now in the service taking care of things I feel I should have done to protect them. September 11, 2001 changed this country in ways we are still growing to understand. My only hope is that the leadership of this country will some day learn to keep their eye on the ball, remember the values this country was founded on, and do what has to be done only because it's the right thing to do. I consider my fathers generation as a whole to be the last great generation, sometimes to go foreword we only need to look to the past.

[rastamanila 313]

Your Brothers and Sisters in The Philippines will NEVER FORGET and NEVER FORGIVE NYC 9/11. We've got our own fight here; but let it be known to all that our enemies are one and the same.

 

 

-Labanan Ang Terorismo!

(Fight Terrorism)

 

-Jah,

 

Ras Ta Far I;

 

-rastamanila

[Twinsen 86]

[bigj480 203]

As for 9/11, never forget, ever. I remember that day, I remember being told, and I remember thinking the person was an asshole for lying about something so serious. I couldn't believe the USA was attacked. Do you remember the blood we all called for back then? The only people that wouldn't call for war are isolationists (Paul) and muslims (Obama).

 

Just to clarify, Ron Paul supported a war against those who committed the act as long as congress declared it. That didn't happen and we were soon sidetracked in Iraq, which is a whole different topic. Also note that we supported Saddam before we were against him and we supported the Taliban before we were against them. That is what interventionism gets us, it costs us American lives and dollars and gains us nothing.

[BobAsh 582]

I don't really remember feeling anything. My family is nowhere near NY and my generation has been so desensitized by TV, Video Games, and the like that it was just like a scene from any old movie.

Mainly I remember feeling anger towards the FCC for blacklisting songs because they "resembled 9/11."

 

So the main emotional impact was, for you, that it limited your music choices. Well, thanks for sharing.

[camon 233]

So the main emotional impact was, for you, that it limited your music choices. Well, thanks for sharing.

 

More like I was mad at the censorship of it other than that I really didn't feel a thing.

 

Everybody and everything dies and that is the absolute truth. We have very little control over how and when it comes. This is something I have understood even when I was young. So if you are wondering, no, I felt absolutely nothing when those people died. It was nothing different from the thousands of people who die around the world daily. Or the millions of lives our Country has taken in the name of those few thousands who died on 9/11.

[superA 289]

So the main emotional impact was, for you, that it limited your music choices. Well, thanks for sharing.

 

More like I was mad at the censorship of it other than that I really didn't feel a thing.

 

Everybody and everything dies and that is the absolute truth. We have very little control over how and when it comes. This is something I have understood even when I was young. So if you are wondering, no, I felt absolutely nothing when those people died. It was nothing different from the thousands of people who die around the world daily. Or the millions of lives our Country has taken in the name of those few thousands who died on 9/11.

 

 

 

 

It seems like just the other day you were talking about how bad the war in Iraq is because it was costing soldiers lives. I guess your particular views on when loss of life is tragic is subjective to which way the wind happens to be blowing. It that wasn't you I apologize for the error. Maybe one of these days you will have kids and you will start to feel a bit different about when people murder indiscriminately. At least your being honest though.

[camon 233]

It seems like just the other day you were talking about how bad the war in Iraq is because it was costing soldiers lives. I guess your particular views on when loss of life is tragic is subjective to which way the wind happens to be blowing. It that wasn't you I apologize for the error. Maybe one of these days you will have kids and you will start to feel a bit different about when people murder indiscriminately. At least your being honest though.

 

I didn't say it was tragic. I said it was needless and that they were being used in the name of a false cause. But that is for another topic, how about you all stay on topic here as there are people who are emotionally hurt by this event and you are being disrespectful by calling out my personal opinions and beliefs.

[zenmetsu 17]

The comment about 11-Sept being this generation's Pearl Harbor brings up an interesting point.

 

In both cases, the government was either incompetent or involved.

 

If our government was truly incompetent in both cases, then the American people have every right to be pissed off. We should be pissed off at *OUR* government for wasting our tax dollars and not defending our people. No offense to the men and women of our armed forces who do a fine job, but your leadership has their heads so far up their collective asses that they are unable to leverage the power of our military to do the simplest of tasks, in this case mere self-defense.

 

If our government was involved in the attacks, that opens up a WHOLE new can of worms. Involvement can occur on many levels. Perhaps the government knew of these attacks and allowed them to transpire because they would give us a reason to enter the war (both against Japan in WWII and against the middle east in 2001). Perhaps the government was innocent at first, and then covered up the story once the identity of the attackers was determined. Perhaps the government planned the whole thing. Either way, the American people should demand the truth and not trust a goddamned thing the government is willing to say until the government is cleared of any wrong-doing.

 

Part of what makes this country great is that we HAVE freedoms. We can voice our opinions on topics and not go to jail for doing so. I enjoy listening to other people's take on what actually transpired on 11-Sept because *I* feel that the true events of that day are still not known. The voicing of opinions, in that case, is a form of brain-storming in which someone may stumble upon some important element that was being overlooked and thus cause the truth to come to light.

 

Being an engineer, there are certain things you generally do when making a root cause analysis. One of these things is to look for the simplest explanation, one that requires the fewest number of pre-conditions. This is parsimony, known to most as Occam's Razor.

 

A lot of the government's claims rely upon some really interesting coincidences.

1) You have the lack of air-defense due to training drills that JUST happened to be scheduled on the same day.

2) You have bags belonging to the supposed terrorists which did not make their connecting flights.

3) You have passports belonging to the supposed terrorists which escaped the WTC infernos unscathed and landed ON TOP of the wreckage, in plain view.

 

In the efforts of fairness, I will give our government the benefit of the doubt on issue #1.

 

Issue #2 is a problem though because in the bag they found a copy of the Koran, flight manuals and other items which would have been useful in hijacking an aircraft. This sort of thing is what you would have on a CARRY-ON bag, not checked luggage. Even if it was checked, what are the odds of the luggage not making the connection? How often have you had your bags end up somewhere else? Take this and the odds that it just happened to be the terrorist's bags... not likely.

 

Issue #3 is a problem because the passport supposedly belonged to Satam Al Suqami who the government claims was on flight 11. Flight 11 struck the north tower and was almost completely absorbed by the structure. In fact, the only surviving piece of the aircraft which escaped the impact was a landing gear which made it's way through the structure. Everything else in the plane remained in the building and burned. Most people are going to carry their passport in a pocket or in a bag. The odds of a passport escaping a pocket or bag, going unburned and unscathed, and then end up on top of 110-stories of rubble is COMPLETELY UNIMAGINABLE.

 

 

I respect the innocent who died. I seek justice for their murderers. If the government had any involvement, however, then taking the government's word without question is doing a disservice to those who gave their lives. The government is not doing the situation any good by continuing to hold evidence in secret. There are tapes that have not been released to the public, even 8 years later. There is no way the release of this evidence can be a threat to national security this late in the game. As long as the government is hiding something, I will not buy their story. I will not be a sheep led to blindly turn my hatred towards islam because if the evidence implicating the muslim folk was planted by the government, then believing in their story would be letting the guilty party win.

 

Even if the whole mess was planned and carried out by islamic extremists, they are still that, extremists. Extremists can be found in every camp, whether it be the islamic one or the right-winged one... opposition will always focus on the extremists and create stereotypes to justify acts against the population as a whole.

[superA 289]

It seems like just the other day you were talking about how bad the war in Iraq is because it was costing soldiers lives. I guess your particular views on when loss of life is tragic is subjective to which way the wind happens to be blowing. It that wasn't you I apologize for the error. Maybe one of these days you will have kids and you will start to feel a bit different about when people murder indiscriminately. At least your being honest though.

 

I didn't say it was tragic. I said it was needless and that they were being used in the name of a false cause. But that is for another topic, how about you all stay on topic here as there are people who are emotionally hurt by this event and you are being disrespectful by calling out my personal opinions and beliefs.

 

 

 

 

Yeah geez, I don't know what I was thinking, I guess I should just follow your lead and say I don't give a shit about the people that died because mommy and daddy let me watch to much tv and loss of life doesn't matter to me only loss of media, ya know, just so I'm not unintentionally disrespectful to anybody that may be emotionally hurt by 9-11. Suck shit mother fucker.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

[DogMan 2,343]

For me the biggest tragedy is that it didn't need to happen. At least not the way it did. I know some will say that hindsight is 20-20 but in this case too many people failed to see the obvious coming. That a jet airliner, a missile, could be so easily comandeered and those who would prevent that would be prevented from protecting themselves, their airplane and their passengers is beyond outrageous. Four cockpits. Protected by not much more than a cardboard door. Pilots inside unarmed. Throats slit by walmart box cutters. Its just absolutely outrageous.

 

Four guns in the hands of four well trained pilots would have prevent all the lives lost that day and all the lives lost since that day in the subsequent battles fought. It wasn't that hard to forsee, and amazingly enough, there are people who still don't get it. Getting all pilots armed has been like pulling teeth, and having an air marshall onboard is still a hit and miss proposition. Eight years later, every flight should either have an armed pilot or an air marshall onboard but that is not the case. I'm amazed, dumbfounded, and disgusted, all at the same time.

 

Imagine that. Four guns, and 9/11 never happens.

Edited September 14, 2009 by DogMan

[zenmetsu 17]

For me the biggest tragedy is that it didn't need to happen. At least not the way it did. I know some will say that hindsight is 20-20 but in this case too many people failed to see the obvious coming. That a jet airliner, a missile, could be so easily comandeered and those who would prevent that would be prevented from protecting themselves, their airplane and their passengers is beyond outrageous. Four cockpits. Protected by not much more than a cardboard door. Pilots inside unarmed. Throats slit by walmart box cutters. Its just absolutely outrageous.

 

Four guns in the hands of four well trained pilots would have prevent all the lives lost that day and all the lives lost since that day in the subsequent battles fought. It wasn't that hard to forsee, and amazingly enough, there are people who still don't get it. Getting all pilots armed has been like pulling teeth, and having an air marshall onboard is still a hit and miss proposition. Eight years later, every flight should either have an armed pilot or an air marshall onboard but that is not the case. I'm amazed, dumbfounded, and disgusted, all at the same time.

 

Imagine that. Four guns, and 9/11 never happens.

 

Even more than this.

 

Let us assume just for a minute, that the federal and state governments truly respected our 2nd amendment rights and placed no restrictions upon them. If that were the case, people on board would have been armed and able to deal with this situation. Even from the ground, if Americans had access to any weapon they wanted, I am sure that someone would have whipped out a Stinger and brought down flight 175 before it hit the second tower. One of my biggest questions is why the government did not do this themselves... they had 20 minutes between the two attacks and not a single interceptor was in range. C'mon...

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

What? Are you saying it would have been ok to shoot them down over the city? How would anyone know that second plane was even involved, until it dove into the second tower?

[zenmetsu 17]

What? Are you saying it would have been ok to shoot them down over the city? How would anyone know that second plane was even involved, until it dove into the second tower?

 

They knew that Flight 175 had been hijacked for about 15 minutes prior to the impact. There were several calls made from the aircraft and it had deviated from it's planned course.

 

The F-15s that were supposedly scrambled to deal with flight 11 should have brought flight 175 down. They would not have hesitated to bring it down over the city, especially knowing that the remaining tower was the likely target. Those planes were supposedly scrambled specifically to bring down the hijacked aircraft if they were unable to divert them.

 

The primary fuckup from 11-September was on behalf of the FAA. Under protocol, the FAA *MUST* notify NORAD immediately of any hijacking as NORAD has the primary responsibility for hijackings in the United States. One of NORAD's missions is to defend against any airborne threat to the U.S., specifically calling out aircraft, missiles, and spacecraft.

 

The FAA waited 30 minutes (ok, 29 to be honest, but close enough) to notify NORAD. Because of this failure, the interceptors were not able to get to American flight 11 before it slammed into the first tower. Whoops. The problem, however, is that the second plane hit 20 minutes after the first. Where were our F-15s then?

 

Indeed... where were those two F-15s? NORAD says that the planes took off from Otis (152 miles away) at 08:52 and flew directly to New York at mach 1.5 (~1100mph). The interceptors should have taken about 8-9 minutes to reach the scene... but they were still not on site when flight 175 hit the tower at 09:03. They did show up at 09:10, which means that they were really only going 500mph. This is in agreement with the fact that no one who saw these two planes reported a sonic boom.

 

And for the record, the top speed of an F-15 is about 1600mph, so the question as to why they were going just over 1/3 of their top speed really does make one wonder. Granted, 1600mph is not attainable at sea level... but even if the planes stayed low, the F-15 can easily push 900mph while under 1000ft altitude, still almost twice as fast as the planes were actually travelling. Something just does not add up.

Edited September 14, 2009 by zenmetsu