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#1 Modern Warfare

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 04:19 AM

Been looking over the videos and topics on 20 round drums, i think its safe to say that the battle is between MD arms and Alliance Arms, My question to the forum is does anyone have a preference? If so what would be the reason?
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#2 S-12 Pauly

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 05:39 AM

Been looking over the videos and topics on 20 round drums, i think its safe to say that the battle is between MD arms and Alliance Arms, My question to the forum is does anyone have a preference? If so what would be the reason?

:horror:
Look here:
http://forum.saiga-1...showtopic=23155
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:Johnboy:

EDIT: Pro-mag is the absolute worst, but for drums, Mikes is better from all the research I have done. That being said, MadMax4X4 has had good luck with his (After the reliability service I think).

When you watch both practical comparisons, AA just seems disingenuous & deceptive. I just got a bad feeling when I saw AA's "comparison". I don't think I would do business with, let alone ship my beloved S-12 to them.
This was long before I was ever a forum member here when I made that decision.

Edited by Paulyski, 19 December 2009 - 05:59 AM.

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#3 DogMan

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 05:47 AM

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#4 Gothmog

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 06:04 AM

I have 3 MD20 drums and I would get more, and still might. I have run about 1000 rounds through each one and one of them 3000 easy, no jams, FTE, FTF smooth as silk. And for pure boner power you can't beat them.



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#5 davidsuffolk

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 07:13 AM

Been looking over the videos and topics on 20 round drums, i think its safe to say that the battle is between MD arms and Alliance Arms, My question to the forum is does anyone have a preference? If so what would be the reason?

I don't normally make critical posts but in honesty I'm amazed to see this poll. Only a short tour through the archives would show that the whole AA set up has been totally derided and their drum declared worthless while Mike's drum has been flawless (and his customer service, at least as far as I'm cncerned, exemplary)

#6 -Shooter-

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 08:17 AM

Been looking over the videos and topics on 20 round drums, i think its safe to say that the battle is between MD arms and Alliance Arms, My question to the forum is does anyone have a preference? If so what would be the reason?


It's not really a "battle" at all. It's more like Anderson Silva (MD Arms) vs. someone's blind, wheel-chair ridden Grandmother (Alliance).

As for reasoning.........as has already been stated, do some searching. Try "alliance" or "wraithmaker" or "wraithfaker" or "tampon dispenser" or "door stop". That should provide you with all the info you need on MD vs AA.

One main reason why Alliance drums don't compare, is that most users are going to need a "Reliability Service", which is of course provided by the nice folks at Alliance Armament for the low-low fee of $200 (on top of the cost of the drum itself). This is to ensure their drum works in your Saiga, and doesn't guarantee it's going to work in your back-up S12, or your buddie's S12 (unless of course, you send those S12's in for the service as well).

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#7 TX-Zen

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 09:17 AM

I have really never seen anything as stupid as Alliance and their reliability service and still can't believe they haven't gone out of business. I followed the MD drum threads closely during the years all the drama was raging and ended up with an extremely low opinion of Alliance to say the least. Bunch of f*ckin cry babies with a sh*tty product, sh*tty business model and sh*tty attitude.

MD Arms is BY FAR the better choice for plenty of reasons, most of which are that his product actually works and works well. And doesn't need some retarded reliability service to overcome a sh*tty design.
Plus he has great customer service :super:

#8 patriot

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 09:26 AM

Mike's drum works great! I helped test one of the beta drums an even the beta worked very well. We have run hundreds of rounds through them as fast as Scoutjoe can pull the trigger, which is about 300-400 rounds a minute. No jams. Just lead and plastic flying out both ends.

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#9 -Shooter-

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 09:27 AM

Mike's drum works great! I helped test one of the beta drums an even the beta worked very well. We have run hundreds of rounds through them as fast as Scoutjoe can pull the trigger, which is about 300-400 rounds a minute. No jams. Just lead and plastic flying out both ends.


......of ScoutJoe?

I knew there was somethin' not right about that boy!



:lol:

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#10 Rusty truck

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 09:56 AM

My MD 20 works great. Probably the most reliable mag I have for my S-12
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#11 Ben Vampatella

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 10:18 AM

http://www.midwayusa...ctnumber=737207

Posted Image

20 round surefire frankenmag for 184 bucks


Im staying out of the drum debate, but I will say that I havent experienced a failure with the MD20 I have for demonstration purposes, courtesy of Mike D.
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#12 D-H

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 10:21 AM

I've recently ordered an MD20 and its waiting for me at home, so I cannot yet comment on how well it works from my own experience. However, nearly everyone else here who owns one has only overwhelmingly positive things to say about it. As for AA, I've seen a few of their youtube videos, one that comes to mind is simply one of their employees demonstrating how to load their drum. The S12 he used in the video was converted by AA and the old trigger pin holes were not welded up, also he fumbled around with his words, calling the charging handle and bolt hold open by other names.

I have handled both AA's 20-rd and 30-rd drums at a recent gun show, I was not impressed with the weight unloaded and the cheap zip-up "dust covers".

#13 Twinsen

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 10:35 AM

If you wanted a fair fight between these two products, it cannot be on this forum. AA has lied to us and tainted so much shit on this forum that most of us will never trust them and will believe all the bad and none of the good testimonials. They've been so sickeningly dishonest with us on a personal level that not many of us are going to say anything good even if there is something good to say.

Also, we buy MD20s, and they are awesome.
I might end up being around a lot more.
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#14 Juggernaut

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 10:37 AM

http://www.midwayusa...ctnumber=737207

Posted Image

20 round surefire frankenmag for 184 bucks


Im staying out of the drum debate, but I will say that I havent experienced a failure with the MD20 I have for demonstration purposes, courtesy of Mike D.

Midway is a sponsor now????? When did that happen???
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It is not in defeating your enemies; It's about the strategy of killing the evil of one man to give life to ten thousand" ~Yagyu Munenori

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#15 Azrial

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 03:30 PM

"IF" the AA worked flawlessly it would still be a non-viable choice as far as I am concerned.

Mike Davis was here and helping us figure out the S12, while AA was figuring out how to charge us to make their product work and concocting lies to support their case.

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#16 GunFun

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 04:22 PM

so this seems to be a moot point that occassionally comes up on this forum.

To me the question would be a comparison between the md 20 and the maxrounds one from the UK... for the basic model the MD 20 looks better, and is way cheaper, so I would buy it. But theirs is magwell friendly and for a lot more cash you can get one that will take 3" shells, so there is still some reason for comparison there.

Normal people can't reasonably afford any of these toys, so if you just want the craziest toy you cant afford for competitions, why not consider a ridiculous 20 pound expensive drum that can be magwell swapped and takes 3" rounds?

I understand Mike Davidson is working on making a magwell adapter or something, and doublestacks, so that would narrow the gap, but I haven't heard anything bad about maxrounds function. just weight, price, US availability and the fact that it is open.

If I was buying one I am sure I would buy the MD20, but I like having options.

#17 3ae6ucb

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 07:38 PM

Even if the Wraithmaker drum did work properly when clean, the open sides are still a poor design choice.

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#18 patriot

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 08:12 PM

Even if the Wraithmaker drum did work properly when clean, the open sides are still a poor design choice.

Some people learn from history. Others are doomed to repeat it.
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Good one. The Chauchat was a piece of shit....just like the Wraithmaker. Wraithmaker...aptly named. This jam-o-matic is very likely to make a wraith of whoever tries to use it in a defensive situation.

Firing a weapon with dirty ammo is never a good idea.

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#19 Ben Vampatella

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 11:09 PM


http://www.midwayusa...ctnumber=737207

Posted Image

20 round surefire frankenmag for 184 bucks


Im staying out of the drum debate, but I will say that I havent experienced a failure with the MD20 I have for demonstration purposes, courtesy of Mike D.

Midway is a sponsor now????? When did that happen???


so fine me - already called them years ago.
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#20 Saigafreake

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 11:21 PM

drum war that made me lol. more like an md arms complete and utter beat down of the wm.
stamped or milled its all kalashnikov in the middle.

#21 Cameron Hadley

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 12:20 AM

The only reason the wraithmaker even exist is because they could rush the design too production by making it from aluminum, fact is mike jr. from aa admitted to me if they had known Mike D. was working on a drum they would not have went through with manufacturing their drum. The wraithmaker offers nothing better than the MD20 other than a removable tower which was by all rights a flawed design in itself. Its an open design, its heavy, it requires a reliability process to work, and its more than $100.00 over the MD20. The MD20 gets my vote over wraith!
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#22 Steppe Sweeper

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 01:06 AM

It's not really a "battle" at all. It's more like Anderson Silva (MD Arms)

Did Fedor collect any L's since I quit following MMA? Named my son after his lil bro Aleksander.

I intend to get a MD drum, but in the meantime would like to see improvements to the hicap mags- jungle clips, stippled body surfaces, mag pulls, etc...I fear they will one day be too valuable to go near with electrical or skateboard griptape now.
But yeah would not have bought my S-12 had it not been for the existence of reportedly reliable MD 20 rd. drum.
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#23 Gadsden Flag

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 02:00 AM

It's not really a "battle" at all. It's more like Anderson Silva (MD Arms)

Did Fedor collect any L's since I quit following MMA? Named my son after his lil bro Aleksander.

I intend to get a MD drum, but in the meantime would like to see improvements to the hicap mags- jungle clips, stippled body surfaces, mag pulls, etc...I fear they will one day be too valuable to go near with electrical or skateboard griptape now.
But yeah would not have bought my S-12 had it not been for the existence of reportedly reliable MD 20 rd. drum.


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#24 Frogfoot

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 03:38 AM

Everytime I try to imagine what the discussian at AA must have been like when they decided to make a Saiga 12 drum, I always come back to it thinking it must have been like a scene out of 'As Good as It Gets', and gone something like:

AA underling: "So boss how are you going to go about making a Saiga 12 drum?"

AA boss: "I'll start with a design like the MD-20, and then I'll take away simplicity, durability, reliability, and ease of use, and I'll also add $100 to the price and make it twice as heavy, then it will be perfect."

AA underling: "Uh, I'm not sure Saiga 12 owners will like that."

AA boss: "That's the way they may feel at first, but once they find out our drums will only work accasionally in about half the Saiga 12s in circulation, and jam all the time in the rest, I'm sure they'll come round."

AA underling: "Uh, what about if there are some Saiga 12 owners that don't come around, and instead call in complaining that when they use our drum in their Saiga 12 it keeps jamming, but that their Saiga 12 runs fine with every other kind of magazine, even Promags."

AA boss: "No problem, anytime that happens you just tell the Saiga 12 owner that all he has to do is send us his defective Saiga 12, and then for just $200 we'll fix it so it will then work with our perfect drum."

AA underling: "Uh, so do we at least cover the shipping?"

AA boss: "Don't be silly, why would we cover shipping when the problem is obviously the defective Saiga 12, not our pefect drum. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go post a video on Youtube saying how shitty MD-20 drums are."
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#25 patriot

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 09:36 AM

Maybe AA is subtly trying to disarm us by selling a product that doesn't work. ;)
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#26 TO THE FLOOR

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 12:30 PM

...and when you get done reading this thread look in the "wall of shame" section of this website for some more reading.
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#27 darkblue

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 03:42 PM

I am planning to get a MD arms drum sometime in the near future, Everything I hear is great and they have always been good When i have talked to them in the past.

I Saw this on Chaos's website and I am really wanting to know more about it but it looks like a more condensed version of the drum. Does anyone know what they are up with it? and if there are any plans for a larger capacity one?
It looks like this one holds 10 rounds and is pretty condensed. just wondering... Attached File  10-rounder2.jpg   62.82KB   20 downloads

#28 GunFun

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 05:28 PM

that's the idea. 10 rounds at 3"

#29 Nitrowing

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 06:11 PM

I am planning to get a MD arms drum sometime in the near future, Everything I hear is great and they have always been good When i have talked to them in the past.

I Saw this on Chaos's website and I am really wanting to know more about it but it looks like a more condensed version of the drum. Does anyone know what they are up with it? and if there are any plans for a larger capacity one?
It looks like this one holds 10 rounds and is pretty condensed. just wondering... Attached File  10-rounder2.jpg   62.82KB   20 downloads


Looks similar in size to the 10rd drum I got with my Mossberg
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#30 Frogfoot

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 06:24 PM

I am planning to get a MD arms drum sometime in the near future, Everything I hear is great and they have always been good When i have talked to them in the past.

I Saw this on Chaos's website and I am really wanting to know more about it but it looks like a more condensed version of the drum. Does anyone know what they are up with it? and if there are any plans for a larger capacity one?
It looks like this one holds 10 rounds and is pretty condensed. just wondering...


That's another of Cameron's projects. Its a neat design that will offer a unique capability, a mag that is as short (or even a bit shorter) as a 5 round box magazine, but with double the ammo capacity. Cameron hasn't said yet when he expects he'll have it ready, and I believe his current priority is bringing his steel 8 round box magazine to market, but this 10 round compact drum will probably be his next priority after that. So far Cameron hasn't said whether he plans to ever make a larger capacity version (Cameron is the owner of Chaos, in case you were wondering).

Edited by Frogfoot, 20 December 2009 - 06:34 PM.





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