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MD Arms Double Stack Mag Patent


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#1 King Cash

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:52 PM

Look what I came across while checking different firearm blogs:

http://www.thefirear...agazine-patent/

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

#2 Saiga Power

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:04 PM

Where would the author of that article get detailed drawings?

MD Arms is a tight nit company, cant see that leaking out

Had to have had a purpose to put that detailed info out there?

#3 physicsnerd

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:06 PM

Look what I came across while checking different firearm blogs:

http://www.thefirear...agazine-patent/

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image


Just saw this and came immediately over here and a thread was already started.


Where would the author of that article get detailed drawings?

MD Arms is a tight nit company, cant see that leaking out

Had to have had a purpose to put that detailed info out there?


The diagrams were published by the USPTO and that is from where the author got them.

#4 Shandlanos

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:17 PM


Look what I came across while checking different firearm blogs:

http://www.thefirear...agazine-patent/

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image


Just saw this and came immediately over here and a thread was already started.


Where would the author of that article get detailed drawings?

MD Arms is a tight nit company, cant see that leaking out

Had to have had a purpose to put that detailed info out there?


The diagrams were published by the USPTO and that is from where the author got them.


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#5 armory

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:20 PM

Nice!Posted Image
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#6 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:35 PM

Doesn't mean a thing until they are actually available for purchase. Seeing as how the quad AK mags haven't came out yet.... don't hold your breath.
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#7 pedal2alloy

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:36 PM

The cat is out of the bag. Mike won't have any peace
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#8 GunFun

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:40 PM

It does mean he is is committed enough to the project to sink a lot of money into filing and maintenance fees. It also means that no one else can make one with his innovations for 16 years. (And then everyone and his dog can.)

#9 deadeye

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:51 PM

seems like that would require a fiew dummy rounds for the mag to feed the last one or two
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#10 Mullet Man

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:42 AM


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#11 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:20 AM

seems like that would require a fiew dummy rounds for the mag to feed the last one or two

There is another way to do it.

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#12 xICEMANx

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:53 AM

Lol just read this on the firearmblog and came to see if their was a post already. Beat me too it. Looks like a great design, hope it comes to market.

#13 EWOKETEER

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:05 AM

If youlook at the drawing, you'll see a rail fron and back that guides the follower. When the subject of DS mags was first discussed, I thought that might be what he would do...
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#14 Guns Are Great

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:16 PM

Getting a patent can be for stopping others from building i.e. promag/surefire, as it is a plan to actually build it. Don't get me wrong I'll buy a couple if sold.

Edited by Guns Are Great, 28 March 2012 - 03:38 PM.


#15 Terry Ruin

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:03 PM

IF they come to market I'm in for buying a couple. Patents don't necessarily mean a design will come to market.

#16 GunFun

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:10 PM

They do tell others how it is done, so they eventually guarantee free public access to good ideas.
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#17 Matthew Hopkins

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:02 PM

Getting a patent can be for stopping others from building i.e. promag/surefire,



patents can be circumvented, by changing the design enough that it doesn't violate the original patent. or if the patent holder fails to pay a "maintenance fee" during the patent period (20 years), then the patent isn't protected any longer. or the patent holder "sells" the patent to another company, for a share per unit ETC...., but still retains the rights.


I know that PRO-MAG didn't wait no 20 years for MDA patent to run out, to make S12 drums. so either the design is different, or MDA didn't keep paying the "maintenance fee" or they sold the rights to PRO-MAG to make them

Edited by Matthew Hopkins, 28 March 2012 - 07:09 PM.


#18 GunFun

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:51 PM

You can also lose a patent by failing to defend it against encroachment.

#19 Mike Davidson

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 09:30 PM

This is definately coming to market. Multiple capacities. Will take both 2 3/4 and 3".

As far as patents... I never patented the drum. There are to many different ways someone could make a drum. I didn't account for someone just coping the key features though. I was considering someone with the same passion I had. I didn't consider the cheap cloners only in it for a quick buck.

The double stack I definitely wanted to patent... Some would say and some have said there was no way to do it. There was in fact one very simple way... My patent will cover all feasible variations and even a not so feasible one. Getting around a patent isn't nearly as easy as some think either. You have to have a good patent (good attorney) and be willing for a fight if need be. I have a great firm I work with. They are all patent attorneys, all they do... I have an advantage to that I am located in a hub of filed patents (Dayton). Willing to fight? I don't want a fight but am completely prepared to give it all I have. I fight very hard too. My attorney is in fact the person who sent me a link today to the same thread that King Cash linked and that made me check here... I filed the patent a good while ago and my attorney filed in a manor to keep it form the public for 18 months. My attorney is on it. He knows what we have... This patent isn't limited to saiga-12 mags. This patent isn't limited to 12ga either.






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#20 ARMOR

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 09:42 PM

This is definately coming to market. Multiple capacities. Will take both 2 3/4 and 3".

As far as patents... I never patented the drum. There are to many different ways someone could make a drum. I didn't account for someone just coping the key features though. I was considering someone with the same passion I had. I didn't consider the cheap cloners only in it for a quick buck.

The double stack I definitely wanted to patent... Some would say and some have said there was no way to do it. There was in fact one very simple way... My patent will cover all feasible variations and even a not so feasible one. Getting around a patent isn't nearly as easy as some think either. You have to have a good patent (good attorney) and be willing for a fight if need be. I have a great firm I work with. They are all patent attorneys, all they do... I have an advantage to that I am located in a hub of filed patents (Dayton). Willing to fight? I don't want a fight but am completely prepared to give it all I have. I fight very hard too. My attorney is in fact the person who sent me a link today to the same thread that King Cash linked and that made me check here... I filed the patent a good while ago and my attorney filed in a manor to keep it form the public for 18 months. My attorney is on it. He knows what we have... This patent isn't limited to saiga-12 mags. This patent isn't limited to 12ga either.


Isn't the drum you made just a USAS 12 drum with a Saiga 12 feed tower?
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#21 ChileRelleno

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 09:54 PM

I've been prick teased by some real Hotties and thought myself no longer subject to getting so randy without the panties hitting the floor.
But once again I find myself with a chubby and no poontang in sight... Thanks Mike.

I'll believe these are 'Coming Soon', when I get a tracking number.
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#22 GunFun

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:02 PM


This is definately coming to market. Multiple capacities. Will take both 2 3/4 and 3".

As far as patents... I never patented the drum. There are to many different ways someone could make a drum. I didn't account for someone just coping the key features though. I was considering someone with the same passion I had. I didn't consider the cheap cloners only in it for a quick buck.

The double stack I definitely wanted to patent... Some would say and some have said there was no way to do it. There was in fact one very simple way... My patent will cover all feasible variations and even a not so feasible one. Getting around a patent isn't nearly as easy as some think either. You have to have a good patent (good attorney) and be willing for a fight if need be. I have a great firm I work with. They are all patent attorneys, all they do... I have an advantage to that I am located in a hub of filed patents (Dayton). Willing to fight? I don't want a fight but am completely prepared to give it all I have. I fight very hard too. My attorney is in fact the person who sent me a link today to the same thread that King Cash linked and that made me check here... I filed the patent a good while ago and my attorney filed in a manor to keep it form the public for 18 months. My attorney is on it. He knows what we have... This patent isn't limited to saiga-12 mags. This patent isn't limited to 12ga either.


Isn't the drum you made just a USAS 12 drum with a Saiga 12 feed tower?


And a unique dummy round and the geometry changed to feed at a different angle and...
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#23 nhresident

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:03 PM

Patents prosecuted by a good firm cost approx ~$12k to $15k. Getting one suggests some serious commitment to the design.
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#24 King Cash

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:32 PM

I cant wait to grab a few!
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#25 deadeye

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:33 PM

good to see mike on here. and cant wait. those look awesome
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#26 Calijohn

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:14 PM

I could only hope we get to see these before the year is over, and I'm really hope by not limited to 12 gauge or saiga 12 he's taking my suggestion on a ruger 10/22 mag.

#27 Jpanzer

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:14 AM

I've been prick teased by some real Hotties and thought myself no longer subject to getting so randy without the panties hitting the floor.
But once again I find myself with a chubby and no poontang in sight... Thanks Mike.

I'll believe these are 'Coming Soon', when I get a tracking number.


Chile, truer words have never been spoken. I'm with you bro, till the panties hit the floor ain't shit gonna happen!!!Posted Image
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#28 Magineer

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:26 AM

|>[---'-]===---
// \-\
\-\


... It looks better in the editor....

Edited by Magineer, 29 March 2012 - 05:32 PM.


#29 Magineer

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:41 AM

Posted Image

Edited by Magineer, 29 March 2012 - 05:45 PM.


#30 Mike Davidson

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 08:16 AM


This is definately coming to market. Multiple capacities. Will take both 2 3/4 and 3".

As far as patents... I never patented the drum. There are to many different ways someone could make a drum. I didn't account for someone just coping the key features though. I was considering someone with the same passion I had. I didn't consider the cheap cloners only in it for a quick buck.

The double stack I definitely wanted to patent... Some would say and some have said there was no way to do it. There was in fact one very simple way... My patent will cover all feasible variations and even a not so feasible one. Getting around a patent isn't nearly as easy as some think either. You have to have a good patent (good attorney) and be willing for a fight if need be. I have a great firm I work with. They are all patent attorneys, all they do... I have an advantage to that I am located in a hub of filed patents (Dayton). Willing to fight? I don't want a fight but am completely prepared to give it all I have. I fight very hard too. My attorney is in fact the person who sent me a link today to the same thread that King Cash linked and that made me check here... I filed the patent a good while ago and my attorney filed in a manor to keep it form the public for 18 months. My attorney is on it. He knows what we have... This patent isn't limited to saiga-12 mags. This patent isn't limited to 12ga either.



Having reviewed the patent, I'm not 100% on it holding up to contestation. The novel and nonobvious tests are certainly up for debate. Essentially, the design is the reverse of the single stack round insertion guides. This isn't a legal forum and I'm no lawyer, but there is nothing about this patent that should prevent other manufacturers from introducing double stacks. Need an example? Look at AR quad stacks.


My attorney is pretty certain this design will beat contesting... As far as quad stack. They have been done for rifle and pistols for many many decades. I can think of many different methods to do a quad for rifle and pistol ammo. I can't do the same for the double stack shotgun mags. Not one that will work anyways without infringing upon mine. I hired professionals for a reason to advice on patents. I wanted to take the assuming out of the equation and know were I stood. Do you think I would have aloud the design to be public before release from filing a patent if I wasn't very confidant the design would be safe? Hell no I wouldn't. I won't go as far as saying no one will never come up with a different way to make it happen. I will say it will be at great expense, resources and beating their heads against the wall only to come up with something of such complexity and/or limitation that the design would be so inferior and/or cost prohibited and/or negating of all practical benefits, etc to pursue it. If this were an easy task it would have been implemented decades ago. I have succeeded were many others have failed. I did it in three weeks too... I am VERY proud of this design. Prouder than I have ever been over any past accomplishment to date.. That means I will fight tooth and nail to protect it. Fight like I have never fought before. I'm not trying to be arrogant or big headed. I am simply speaking from a father stand point regarding his child. What would you do if someone tried to get your baby by the arm to take it away from you? It would ensue a very, very nasty and vicious confrontation. No one is getting my baby without a very defining fight for life. I hope you all feel the same way.
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