Promag 12 Round Drum

[voonman 133]

We will see when i give it a test...It is kinda strange how the MD20 did a huge price drop...But that really doesnt matter now..it is still a very good product..I think the Drum Wars have just started...Maybe in time you will probably see Tapco and other Manufacturers marketing these for the Saiga 12, it was just a matter of time..

[termite 463]

I have the ProPuke drum for the 1911, and it's a POS. Loaded with 10-15 rounds and they start laying over forward, and to load it full is impossible. It's a fricking joke. Returned it and they said it was fine, yeh it's fine, a fine TERD. I have also bought some of their mags, and 99% of them are crap, so buy from Mike.

[jimdigriz 580]

Mike knows that company has stayed in buisness regardless of selling a lot of faulty products. How has that happened? maybe us buying them hoping they will work this time?

 

Even if it works, I wouldn't want to reward such an unethical company. Some companies, I won't do business with no matter how good/useful/cheap their product is.

 

But I wonder whether if this one doesn't work, ProMag will still get "one more chance" for their next promising POS. ProMag = Lucy holding the football. I'll leave you to guess who Charlie Brown is...

[Moe Zambeak 53]

I have bought ProMags for my Mini-14, Witness .45, and my Saiga-12. I have yet to own one of their mags that would feed more than the first round. I feel like a fool for giving them a chance two times after the first POS mag. If I gave them another chance, that would only confirm that I am a fool.

[TO THE FLOOR IN A 63 121]

The way Mike dropped his price on the 20 rd drums, it sure doesn't look like he thought they were going to be a failure now does it?

My money says he has already seen these mags, probably at SHOT.

 

Who would you rather listen to?

 

I know of someone else who has shot one, had it in his hand last week or the week before...but he has not given a report yet.

 

...and you would find him reliable...not a noob like me.

Edited February 12, 2010 by TO THE FLOOR

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

The reason Mike dropped the price is to not lose the newcomers to the market.

 

There are a lot of people that don't have Saiga 12's but will see one sitting on the shelf of their favorite gun store with a ProMag drum on it and buy it. Why not have an MDArms in it instead?

 

A lot of weekend warriors that shoot RECREATIONALLY buy cheap shit that doesn't work because they don't know any better and/or because they can't afford quality. ProMag has been kept alive in business because of these "Gunshow Warriors".

 

It is the same thing in that you can get a reflex sight for $20 at CDNN, so why would someone fork out $500 for an EOTech or Aimpoint? Both put a red dot on the target. Yet people that have used EOTechs & Aimpoints know the other benefits, while Gunshow Warriors do not.

 

I used to buy cheap shit when I was in college and was a Gunshow Warrior. I could have bought a lot of quality stuff with all the money I wasted on garbage. But now I am wiser and will not waste my time with ProMag or the chinese companies that make cool-looking accessories that don't last.

[stiletto raggio 20]

While I understand the "let's see if it is garbage before we say no to it" school of thought, the follow-on "it may not be a piece of junk so, if it is new, I should buy one just in case" school does not make sense to me. If someone else wants to buy it, more power to them. I bought ten of the Pro-Mag sticks and have not had a problem with the few that I have used. That said, if they had not been 40-50% cheaper than the next cheapest alternative (AGPs, which I also bought ten of) I would never have bought them. I was in on the first pre-order with Mike and I just ordered more drums. Yes, I think his product is demonstrably superior, but I also think loyalty is important.

 

MIKE IS ONE OF US. Let me be clear what I mean. I don't mean that he is a foum member. I mean he is a gun guy, a hobbyist turned entrepreneur that cares about the shooting community. ProMag exists only because they saw an opportunity to exploit the 94 AWB and rip people off. They have never made a product that even approaches OEM magazines for quality or function and, due to their business model, never will. Because of their market saturation, they posed an existential threat to Mike. They are like the Wal-Mart of magazines: cheap and readily available, they squeeze out or marginalize competitors. Mike is giving them a fight, and because I would rather see innovative, high-quality products on the market than inferior BS, he is getting my vocal support and my money. Even if ProMags functioned fine "just as range toys" I would NEVER buy one because doing so ultimately undermines the quality makers. The drums I buy will be MD and, inshallah, Chaos. Mike eloquently defended his position and has shown the guts to fight it out. He deserves our support--all of it.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

Well.... I KNOW I DO NOT need to sleep with a Thai lady boy to make sure I'm STILL not Gay.......

Even if the Thai Lady boy is smokin' hot!!! Thai lady boys are pretty much known to be gay..

(*Disclaimer... No offense to any straight Thai lady boys out there!!!)

 

If I did... Odds are I'd get packed up my backside and my throat cut...

 

I feel the same way about Pro Mag.... Even if the drum is sexy....

Every Time I Try one of their products.. I get screwed in the butt & my throat cut!!!

I know I pretty much don't want to try it again on my dime....

 

If its the real thing... I'm sure we will hear about it....

 

^^Ladyboy^^

Looks sexy... but what's it got under the hood????

 

I'm not willing to pay to check it out...

[MikeD 541]

The way Mike dropped his price on the 20 rd drums, it sure doesn't look like he thought they were going to be a failure now does it?

My money says he has already seen these mags, probably at SHOT.

 

Who would you rather listen to?

Let me get something clear here. I don't think they will be worth a damn! I haven't yet tried one so can't say for sure. But what I do know is your position on this subject is "Silly" to put it as nicely as I can. How well thought out are your responses?

 

The saiga-12 market is very puny in comparison to Promag's other targeted markets. The saiga market isn't a fraction of a few of them by themselves. Not counting all those markets put together against the Saiga-12. I heard in 2006 that 500,000 new ARs sold in the US alone. We are lucky if there is a total of 100,000 Saiga-12s in country right now.

 

To think that promag gives a shit what Saiga-12 people think is just plain dumb. Do you really think they listen to what people say and have been saying for decades in much larger markets? Come on now. What promag goes off is exactly what Buffet Destroyer said in his post and nothing else... They have been building cheap junk for years and aren't going to change that for us, and you can take that to the bank! They put a warranty on it knowing most people won't follow through with all the back flips. And that alone will keep them profiting, PERIOD!

 

Anyone with a little bit of engineering back ground or mind set can see their drums are severely lacking, aren't you seeing it too? Looks just like the rest of the garbage to me. I know you have a chip on your shoulder for me, that is no secret! Maybe you just want to see ME fall from grace... IF so, trust me again, you won't.

 

My guess is they will be junk, if you value what people think of your words I suggest you quit pushing and speaking hopefully of NATIONALLY KNOWN junk makers. You are severely hurting your own credibility and displaying incompetence in what your saying...

 

Even if they did copy my design... if they use the same cheap materials as their other items... The part that comes out of the mold will likely be severely distorted. I expect to see a sunk in tower just like their 10rders. And maybe even warp on the scoop itself. If it is the same material it will also distort over a short time if kept stored loaded. All this is speculation until I see the parts first hand. But until then, I still say they are a joke of a company and a disgrace and scammer to any true hard working American consumer.

 

I heard they built they 10rder off one Saiga-12 just like someone else. And after 10,000 mags was made they realized this. Boy, that sure sounds like someone that gave a shit to me... But the jackasses and the skepticly hopefull have made that project profitable enough that they went into drums. Know doubt they will be profitable for them as well. But I do know that they have lost some SERIOUS sales due to my price drop!

 

If you want to hurt promag and make them build better stuff or get out... The only way will be for everyone to take them up on their BS guarantees. Send that junk back and cost them big time!

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Sounds like this would have made a better PM....nice.

 

Well you're wrong Mike. You are taking things much too personal. I made an observation based on what has been written on these pages and that is all. If you want to attack me further I suggest you be nice and keep it private. I did assume that you knew something more than the rest of us about these new drums. My mistake....sorry.

 

All I did was play devil's advocate and put up an argument for the underdog....my usual MO unless you haven't spent much time around here. I'll tell you what's "silly". Silly is watching a bunch of people on a forum ridiculing and dooming something they have never even seen before. Logic says to wait and see what it is for sure before acting like a bunch of spoiled children in some uppity club, who know everything about a product that no one has even seen yet. Do I really care about promag? No. Have I had mags from them that worked just fine? Yes.

You have to have two sides to a discussion or it's just a mob. Guess that's not allowed for me though....to be a voice for the underdog....right or wrong.

Fine then......I'll keep to myself. People aren't stupid. They can see for themselves what's up.

 

Truth is, In have supported your products to death and you are insane if you think otherwise. Yes you are the business member here and you deserve all the support, not the other guy. It's just that there have been enough BASHING PARTIES already. For ONCE why can't we let facts decide something, rather than a bunch of personal crap?

 

Thanks for making it all about me. Just great.

[Crusader 64]

Sounds like this would have made a better PM....nice.

 

Well you're wrong Mike. You are taking things much too personal. I made an observation based on what has been written on these pages and that is all. If you want to attack me further I suggest you be nice and keep it private. I did assume that you knew something more than the rest of us about these new drums. My mistake....sorry.

 

All I did was play devil's advocate and put up an argument for the underdog....my usual MO unless you haven't spent much time around here. I'll tell you what's "silly". Silly is watching a bunch of people on a forum ridiculing and dooming something they have never even seen before. Logic says to wait and see what it is for sure before acting like a bunch of spoiled children in some uppity club, who know everything about a product that no one has even seen yet. Do I really care about promag? No. Have I had mags from them that worked just fine? Yes.

You have to have two sides to a discussion or it's just a mob. Guess that's not allowed for me though....to be a voice for the underdog....right or wrong.

Fine then......I'll keep to myself. People aren't stupid. They can see for themselves what's up.

 

Truth is, In have supported your products to death and you are insane if you think otherwise. Yes you are the business member here and you deserve all the support, not the other guy. It's just that there have been enough BASHING PARTIES already. For ONCE why can't we let facts decide something, rather than a bunch of personal crap?

 

Thanks for making it all about me. Just great.

I gave you another +1 on your rep to keep your spirits high.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Crusader

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

It's no use. I'll get thrown under the bus for trying to defend myself against an attack that should have been a private conversation. If you hadn't quoted it I was on my here to just delete it. Thanks for sealing my fate.

 

I am very Sorry Mike. You are right and I was wrong Mike. Please don't be angry with me everyone. I do not want this fight, it's quite obvious that I have no legs to stand on. How dare I say anything but bad things about promag. Everyone knows they suck and MD Arms makes the only real drums that work for the S-12. Sounds like a broken record because I have been saying it over and over myself for years now...

 

I'll just go crawl away quietly now into a little hole where you all want me to be.

[joebanda1213 59]

Damn People Just Damn...

YALL SOUND LIKE A BUNCH OF WOMEN... bitchen

 

Who cares... guess what everytime you post, this thread gets put back at the top so everyone can see that there is a new competitor to the drum market.

 

It obviously wont be as good as the MD... and it will be cheaply made... but it might be somewhere in the middle where it is worth while... Only time will tell.

 

Every other thread on here says on it somewhere that promag is junk... We know... give it a rest

[Azrial 1,091]

If they work... they will be one of the first Promag products that does. Still, I wish them and the all the folks that buy them well.

I will try one too, if they will agree to give me credit for all the bum ProMag clunkers I have bought over the years!

[saiga875 10]

I'm a man without a country on this one. I think Cobra is correct in saying not to jump to conclusions. And I appreciate his courage in speaking up on the side of reason. I also think Mike is right in saying ProMag is a company that makes low end products for the segment of the market that generally doesn't know better. Those that say these drums will be inferior are probably right. They look poorly designed and that thumb loader "thing" is just ridiculous. But time will tell how well they work and the low price coupled with human curiosity will ensure several members will try them. I almost bought a 10rd ProMag at the last gun show for $18 just because it was cheap. But then I remembered I knew better and should probably just wipe with that twenty if I wanted to get the most use out of it. I'm as interested as anybody here in how these turn out. But I won't buy one even if they run great because I'd rather give that money to MD who makes a known good product and supports the Saiga community exclusively. But kudos to Cobra. I know it can be hard when you're the lone voice on the unpopular side. Especially when it feels like you're being misunderstood in your position.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

No ill will toward pro mag... A lot of folks lose faith in auto companies when they get a lemon car and stop buying that brand.. Maybe GM will make a quality car now that the Peoples republic of Amerika owns them.... Personally.. I have got far to many lemons from pro mag for me to have faith as a first gen buyer....... Still no reason to bash folks for not puting their money down on something unproven with a shady track record... Pro Mag has done NOTHING for the Saiga community other than try and make a fast buck on the sucess of the Saiga platform,. (Hey.. that's American capitalism at it's best!!! More power to 'em....!!! I HOPE they work great!!!)

 

On the other hand.. I been nothing but Impressed with MD arms from testing forward..... and at 100 bucks a drum???? Why ARE we still talking about this.....?

[ChowDog 2]

I don't think it's immature or premature to bash a company (in this case ProMag) that has a poor record where quality, performance, and customer service are concerned. ProMag drums, regardless of how cheap they are, will still cost you money... money that you earned (unless you're on welfare).

[billyjoebob 10]

It's no use. I'll get thrown under the bus for trying to defend myself against an attack that should have been a private conversation. If you hadn't quoted it I was on my here to just delete it. Thanks for sealing my fate.

 

I am very Sorry Mike. You are right and I was wrong Mike. Please don't be angry with me everyone. I do not want this fight, it's quite obvious that I have no legs to stand on. How dare I say anything but bad things about promag. Everyone knows they suck and MD Arms makes the only real drums that work for the S-12. Sounds like a broken record because I have been saying it over and over myself for years now...

 

I'll just go crawl away quietly now into a little hole where you all want me to be.

 

I totally agree with Cobra on this. While I don't have much hope that the Promags drums will work well, let's wait and see before we trash them. Maybe the've corrected their manufacturering issues. Maybe they've done their homework this time. Who knows...It's still too early.

 

While I would think the MD-20 will beat their 20-rounder hands down, they have a new product that no one else has brought to market...a 12 round drum. I think many of us have been waiting for something like this since Cobra published the diagrams for his 10-rounder.

 

But I can tell you (Mike at MD)...you do yourself a disservice by repeatedly coming on and trashing your competition. Everyone here already knows that promag has sold crappy saiga products in the past, but when a respected business member so vehimently broadcasts it over-and-over, it starts to reeck of desperation.

 

You have great, well made products. Let your business silently stand on it's well earned reputation.

 

You don't have to lower yourself to tearing down the competition. Isn't that exactly what AA tried to do to you a while back.

[KrisFox 69]

I just got a AA drum from a fed up customer of AA.

I have a second run MD arms drum. (New ones on order)

 

I think I'll order a Pro-mag drum and do a 3 way and test them tell they break.

 

I think parking a truck on them over night at the end of testing will settle it for sure.

[cb8180 2]

For me, at least when it comes to firearms, it's an issue of pride. We all know of all the research and development that Mike put into the MD-20. It was all here for all to see. As far as Promag, I haven't found a single reference to their new drums anywhere on the net--other than their website and that is only a picture. A good mag should last at least the lifetime of the owner (with proper care), and I have no doubt at all regarding the MD-20. I consider it money VERY well spent; I'm not so sure about the Promag stuff.

[jimdigriz 580]

I totally agree with Cobra on this. While I don't have much hope that the Promags drums will work well, let's wait and see before we trash them. Maybe the've corrected their manufacturering issues. Maybe they've done their homework this time. Who knows...It's still too early.

 

They've lost their right to the benefit of the doubt, at least they have with me.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

How does Someone not interested in messing with a Pro Mag drum equate trashing the Co????

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I wonder how the ProMag R&D meeting for the drum went..................

 

 

 

R&D 1: Well, we managed to royally fuck up these stick mags.

R&D 2: Yup. Sure did. What's the plan for our next venture into bullshittery?

R&D 1: I say we get into the drum market.

R&D 2: Brilliant! Let's forget about making our current products better, and just put another piece of shit out on the market to dupe unknowing souls.

R&D 1: Ah yes. I mean, really, if they don't know better.....they're going to assume our products work, because our name is Pro Mag.

R&D 2: <greedily rubs hands together>

[james peek 14]

Well.... I KNOW I DO NOT need to sleep with a Thai lady boy to make sure I'm STILL not Gay.......

Even if the Thai Lady boy is smokin' hot!!! Thai lady boys are pretty much known to be gay..

(*Disclaimer... No offense to any straight Thai lady boys out there!!!)

 

If I did... Odds are I'd get packed up my backside and my throat cut...

 

I feel the same way about Pro Mag.... Even if the drum is sexy....

Every Time I Try one of their products.. I get screwed in the butt & my throat cut!!!

I know I pretty much don't want to try it again on my dime....

 

If its the real thing... I'm sure we will hear about it....

 

^^Ladyboy^^

Looks sexy... but what's it got under the hood????

 

I'm not willing to pay to check it out...

IF I WAS SINGLE AND DRUNK THAT MIGHT REALLY FUCK ME UP!!!

[Paulyski 2,227]

My firearms are Tools, Not Toys.

 

Who wants a dull knife? Why use the same brand of axe that the handles break on? and if you get a new handle is it going to be from the same company? Do you go out and buy the cheapest hammer possible, or get something that will finish the job at hand and the one after it?

 

I'm looking foward to the results, But my expectations are extreemly low, and it'll take more than a few people telling me they work to buy into the impending hype.

I agree compleatly.

The way I look at it, Undependable firearms are nothing short of a liability.

Yes they're fun, & we play with them, but when it comes down to it, they're a tool that our lives may one day depend on.

My "collection" will only be top-notch, because if needed, I will arm my friends & have a considerable force at my disposal.

If someone grabs undependable shit, lives are endangered.

Why have undependable shit that your loved ones may grab because they don't know any better & it LOOKS tough?

 

I got rid of a high-point .45, a lemon P-64 (before my good P-64 (someone screwed the first one's feed ramp up)), I nearly gave away my ProMag-10 & included a warning not to use for defense. The AB-10 went the same route, as did a Bersa thunder.

I just don't think a shitty company that endangers their customers lives by producing a substandard product should be supported.

 

And if anyone out there is making their guns undependable because they think they are only toys, then you sell them without telling the buyer they are a pile of shit....

That would make you a douche-bag. Lower than wale shit.

 

 

 

 

....... I was reading this thread earlier, and 1st thing that came to mind was, I wonder if any of these people who are trashing this product/company, have ever tried a promag stick, or drum mag...........

 

Yep.

My but still hurts from dealing with that company & waiting over 3 months for a warranty replacement that didn't work.

It took over 10 calls, 5 promises of delivery from Carlos that didn't happen. And finding my shipping label copy that I was smart enough to save, because all of a sudden, after having record of receiving it, they denied that they had a record of my sending it in for a replacement.

 

So yep.

At least one of us bitching has some first hand experience with this lousy company.

[Donkismash 81]

Sounds like this would have made a better PM....nice.

 

I would have posted that pm.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

MIKE IS ONE OF US. Let me be clear what I mean. I don't mean that he is a foum member. I mean he is a gun guy, a hobbyist turned entrepreneur that cares about the shooting community.

 

I hope this doesn't sound of line. But don't you think it's a little, shall we say, naive, to think Mike is some saint that ought to be revered. These drums went from $260 to $100 in a matter of what, two weeks? Do you honestly think the drums would have ever gone anywhere near $100, even $200, if MD Arms remained the monopoly of drum magazines? I'm not giving the guy shit for making money. He's a guy trying to pay the bills like everyone else. But c'mon now, let's do some math. He can cut the price to almost a third and still make a good enough profit to be in business and have food on the table and gas in the truck. If it wasn't, I'm sure he'd have shut the lights off when ProMag made the announcement. He doesn't make drum mags for his health. What we witnessed was, without malice, price gouging, plain and simple. Due to monopoly. Supply and demand. Basic rules and results of free market capitalism.

 

Maybe ProMags drum will suck. Maybe it will be awesome. But in the end, one thing we all should realize is that this whole situation has benefitted all of us "little guys" - now we get to try all the drums at a realistic price, and see for ourselves which is the best product.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Klassy Kalashnikov

[patriot 7,197]

KK,

 

Ever hear of R&D costs? Startup costs? All that get recouped up front, then the price can come down cause it's time and material after that. Simple fact of bringing a product to market.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

KK,

 

Ever hear of R&D costs? Startup costs? All that get recouped up front, then the price can come down cause it's time and material after that. Simple fact of bringing a product to market.

 

KK....Mike was/is one of the "little guys" a short while back.... Not a corporate powerhouse like Pro Mag...

 

Not to mention, he may not be making money at 100 dollars a drum... He could be flooding the market to drown out competition...

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

KK,

 

Ever hear of R&D costs? Startup costs? All that get recouped up front, then the price can come down cause it's time and material after that. Simple fact of bringing a product to market.

 

Of course. But the statement remains true. Manufacturing, R&D, etc. The drum's a profit at $100, and it's a gold mine at $260. Trust me, Mike knows his operating costs and i doubt he would be selling product at a loss. Highly doubt. Maybe I'm wrong. ProMag is also able to bring product to the market at a similar price. Also, like I said, there has not been a price drop, at all, except for this substantial cut due to a competitor showing up.

 

And I'll be the first to admit...I'm broke man. I could never afford the MD-20 drum at original price. Simply never made that kinda money at my job. And now being laid off, I'd never see a drum. So it's very refreshing for someone like me to see MD20 at $100, which is something I could certainly save up for now.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Klassy Kalashnikov