What will kill the AR platform?

[Crusader 64]

I am with Gunfixr because even if the military adopts other weapons, there are more AR's in civilian hands than anything else besides maybe Remington 870's. I don't think the AR will die because you can still buy replica Sharps and Model 94's at many sporting good stores because nostalgia drives a lot of gun sales.

 

I have no problem with any of these weapons: AK, AR, FAL, SCAR, ACR, XCR, HK416, G3, etc. Each can be effective if properly maintained and in the hands of someone that is trained to understand how the system works and keep it working.

 

A Harrington & Richardson break action single shot may be the most reliable gun in existence, but the rate of fire sucks so I doubt that it is in contention for the new issued long arm for our military.

 

There is more to consider than just reliability in this equation. Remember that a bunch of M14's that were supposed to be on their way to the CMP program (or destroyed), got refurbed and reactivated as the mission of our troops required a .308 in Afghanistan and Iraq to penetrate through walls. The M14 was phased out originally around the time of Vietnam (except as a drill rifle) yet it is still being used today.

 

NEVER SAY DIE!

I absolutely love my LWRC M6A3. Thats right, I spent a few bucks.

[G O B 3,516]

The AR cannot die, it was dead on arrival! Now it haunts us as the Zombie gun that looks great - but decomposes in your hand WHEN YOU NEED IT THE MOST!

 

Robert McNamara cursed us with this abomination, and as long as he rules in hell - we are stuck with it!

[Crusader 64]

The AR cannot die, it was dead on arrival! Now it haunts us as the Zombie gun that looks great - but decomposes in your hand WHEN YOU NEED IT THE MOST!

 

Robert McNamara cursed us with this abomination, and as long as he rules in hell - we are stuck with it!

MWO for DI to piston replacement on current systems = problem solved and almost perfect weapon system

[DogMan 2,343]

Just for the record, I would never say the AR platform will be killed, as in vanish from the face of the earth. It won't, not by a long shot. I understood the question (and I may be wrong) to mean the replacement of the weapon as the standard issue carbine in the U.S. military.

[RobRez 1,895]

Godzilla will destroy the AR platform like He has destroyed Tokyo so many times!!!

[Paladin 37]

The only problem I have with AR's is the caliber, If you run them wet they are just a tick (OK-2 ticks) behind AK's in reliability IMO.

 

The caliber is anemic and that has been documented over and over. The round is velocity dependent and with today's shorter barrels they don't frag like there supposed too.

 

If you're real close it will zip right through a skinny guy or a arm/leg, If you're far away it won't frag and just makes a .22 hole.

 

It also sucks in penetrating intermediate barriers.

 

HOWEVER, the new 77gr OTM and near solid copper projectiles are are performing very well.

 

I predict they will not go away from AR's due to cost and will instead rely on advancing bullet technology.

 

When they come up with case-less designs, or something else that is REVOLUTIONARY as opposed to evolutionary they will spend the money to switch rifles.

 

For the near to medium term future they are more focused on the bigger programs rather than small arms.

[Arik 565]

I'm a complete noob to ARs. I bought one in the winter just to have an American "evil gun". Its a DD MV4 or something. So far I've put countless amounts of ammo through it without a cleaning or oiling or even taking it apart. I did that when I brought it home just to make sure nothing was broken/missing. I put everything through it up to $7 a box. Meaning I'll buy the cheap cheap ammo before I spend a lot of money on putting holes in paper and round orange disks. So far so good. Maybe I got lucky, maybe DD builds one hell of a rifle or maybe I havnt neglected it enough. We'll see.

[Bean.223 365]

THIS IS WHAT WILL REPLACE IT!!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am76xV8Aubk&feature=related

 

 

RIPLEY SAYS HELLO!!!

 

 

In all seriousness, this guy really did an excellent job on this rifle...

[Graniteer 10]

I don't think the AR will go away for quite some time. I don't own one (yet), but I really don't think they are as bad as they are made out to be. One of the things I find goofy is the buffer tube arrangement, it just seems like there could have been a better way.

 

Also, I have read (I know, it doesn't count) on the interwebs, that a piston driven system changes the balance of the rifle and shifts it too far forward.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Also, I have read (I know, it doesn't count) on the interwebs, that a piston driven system changes the balance of the rifle and shifts it too far forward.

 

I don't know anything about that, but I'll personally stay away from piston AR uppers until they can take care of the carrier-tilt problem (or maybe they have already, I don't keep up on them).

 

But for the platforms designed around the piston system, it's not a problem.

[Casp 119]

Also, I have read (I know, it doesn't count) on the interwebs, that a piston driven system changes the balance of the rifle and shifts it too far forward.

 

I don't know anything about that, but I'll personally stay away from piston AR uppers until they can take care of the carrier-tilt problem (or maybe they have already, I don't keep up on them).

 

But for the platforms designed around the piston system, it's not a problem.

 

Keeping the weight of the moving mass as low as possible, shifting the center of gravity rearward for better balance, and reducing weight in general are the very reasons the DI gas system was invented in the first place. So, yes, converting to a short-stroke piston system does add a lot of weight to the front end of the gun, nullifying the entire point the AR exists.

 

As for carrier tilting, here's a solution (link). The "anti-cant" heavy buffer for piston system ARs. Take notice however; remember what I said about the too-light-weight buffer, and thus the bolt opening too fast, being a cause of most of the AR carbine's problems? Notice that none of these piston-specific buffers are less than H3 (5.5-5.6oz; standard buffer is only 2.9-3.0oz), and they also recommend using a Wolff XP (extra power) recoil spring. In other words, when installing a gas piston conversion in your AR, it is strongly suggested that you use a heavier buffer and spring which would have fixed all your problems on their own anyway. They are market-gimmick BS. Remember kids, contrary to popular belief, the standard DI AR-15 actually DOES have a gas piston in it.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Caspian Sea Monster

[self_inflicted 70]

[t165 30]

A new Government contract. If you do not believe me then simply review history. Most men are lambs who dream of owning teeth and will follow blindly.

[sharkbit 109]

are you kidding me, seems like they are just starting to catch on with the mainstream. The Fudds out there are finally starting to accept them as hunting rifles, at least according to shows like American Rifleman, LOL.

[mgconnor13 206]

My M4 ran just fine in Iraq. M-16/4 is here to stay till a significantly better weapon comes out that is the same price or cheaper. If you replace the weapon you must replace everything that goes with it. Manufacturers have to re-tool and the entire support system that keeps those weapons running has to be over-hauled along with new training for every one that uses and maintains those weapons. all that equals huge amounts of we're not talking just unit price but the price of a whole new weapon and support structure.

[Krom 36]

I think like others mentioned that the LWRC piston or similar with the new 77gr ammo will pretty much fix everything for a while.

 

BTW on the DI gas system, yes it works fine in most scenarios (civilian) but for military use it's gotta go! Reason being, too much heat is transfered to the bolt carrier either through sustained periods of fire, short barrels, and suppressors.

I don't give hoot if you can fire a weapon 2k times without cleaning if those 2k rounds were spread out to allow for adequate cooling, in combat I want a weapon that will still function even if the barrel is about to catch fire. Plus that heat fatigues an already somewhat delicate bolt, which gives me a real concern about a sudden catastrophic failure later. BTW DI is great for SWAT, civy home defense etc... no exception of fighting off wave after wave of enemy combatants.

 

My 2cents

[tripletdadOH 0]

I think like others mentioned that the LWRC piston or similar with the new 77gr ammo will pretty much fix everything for a while.

 

BTW on the DI gas system, yes it works fine in most scenarios (civilian) but for military use it's gotta go! Reason being, too much heat is transfered to the bolt carrier either through sustained periods of fire, short barrels, and suppressors.

I don't give hoot if you can fire a weapon 2k times without cleaning if those 2k rounds were spread out to allow for adequate cooling, in combat I want a weapon that will still function even if the barrel is about to catch fire. Plus that heat fatigues an already somewhat delicate bolt, which gives me a real concern about a sudden catastrophic failure later. BTW DI is great for SWAT, civy home defense etc... no exception of fighting off wave after wave of enemy combatants.

 

My 2cents

Maintain the weapon properly and it will work.I'd say atleast half the folks ripping on the ar platform have no idea what their talking about except what they read on the internet.Maybe I'm wrong,but,I doubt it.Flame on.

[going12220 125]

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

http://www.fnhusa.com/mil/press/detail.asp?id=92

 

Looks like SOCOM will be getting their new rifles.

[mgconnor13 206]

from what I've been hearing the Rangers tried the SCAR and decided not to buy it.

[Vultite 57]

http://www.fnhusa.com/mil/press/detail.asp?id=92

 

Looks like SOCOM will be getting their new rifles.

I've heard that has been canceled, that notice may be full production for civilians, there has already been SCARs in the field and they haven't received to much of a warm welcome but maybe thats all rumor...

[Krom 36]

http://www.fnhusa.co...etail.asp?id=92

 

Looks like SOCOM will be getting their new rifles.

I've heard that has been canceled, that notice may be full production for civilians, there has already been SCARs in the field and they haven't received to much of a warm welcome but maybe thats all rumor...

 

I heard the same rumor...

[BobAsh 582]

1) I hate polls

 

2) I don't understand the question. Can you make a list of other military platforms that have been "killed" in the manner you are describing?

[Agent Lemon 157]

Other-

 

Anything that does not shit where it eats, if you know what I mean.

[gunfun 3,931]

and here, I thought they were replacing the M4 and other small arms with remote control planes and such.

[XXXSilverXXX 11]

Some mud, dirt, or sand. Maybe if the ak's catch up and surpass in accuracy they will beat out the ar's in accuracy...

[MT Predator 2,294]

Sounds like they are not "killing" the platform just yet. Remington just landed a contract to build a shitload more for Uncle Sugar.

[Bayoupiper 738]

As was alluded to in previous posts, the only thing that will relegate to AR to the backwaters is if the .gov contracts for some other platform.

[Foxtrot Oscar 37]

Anything that will kill another rifle. Also, half of a twinkie in the receiver.

 

It's going to be popular for years, I'd imagine. It is familiar and iconic to the US. I'd like to own one but that won't be for years because it's very low on my list of wants, definitely not a need.

It will phase out eventually but it will probably be through a series of 'upgrades' until what you have is basically a Kalashnikov like receiver with AR platform handling.

 

lol, pretty big thread revive

Edited May 4, 2012 by MolonLabe

[Joseph 141]

Yeah when I look at the internals of these "new" designs it reminds me of something oddly familiar

Edited May 4, 2012 by ZombieJefferson