setlab 11 Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 Why do people want to skimp out on a US gun? Hell by the time any of you buy the conversion parts to turn a sporterized Russian gun into a pistol griped conversion you will be in the $1000 price range. That's a totally reasonable price to pay for a pistol griped US gun that probably has improvements over the Russian version. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ewoketeer 35 Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) I can't imagine it would be difficult to produce S12 receivers (plate w/ holes folded over mandrel/arbor, riveted rails, trunnions, etc.). I wish I had the wherewithal to do this. I imagine someone with a hvy duty brake could bend plates w/o too much trouble. If I didn't have to keep peace in the house with the other half, I'd look into doing the plates, at least... Edited April 13, 2011 by EWOKETEER Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uzitiger 193 Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) I would also love to see this sucker built in the US Akdal MKA 1919 semi-automatic shotgun (Turkey) I read about this AR shotgun look alike which would be a great addition to AR owners. I'm not sure if the upper receiver breaks open like an AR for cleaning. I don't care about giving the Turkish my money in the way they are turning more radically Islamic but they do make good weapons. I prefer the AK platform and the S-12 it would be easy to make a US version of the S-12 since some US compliant parts are available already. We would need the shotgun specific parts since the FCG, stocks, handguards and pistol grips already exist as AK parts. It's better to use a bending jig to make a receiver since it's easy to mess up a receiver blank on a press brake (I know since it happened to me.) Edited April 19, 2011 by uzitiger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Why do people want to skimp out on a US gun? Hell by the time any of you buy the conversion parts to turn a sporterized Russian gun into a pistol griped conversion you will be in the $1000 price range. That's a totally reasonable price to pay for a pistol griped US gun that probably has improvements over the Russian version. What? I paid $600 for my S-12, plus $250 for a conversion kit, and $20 for a V-plug. Not $1000. And I paid more than most for my S-12, there are some here who have less than $700 in their converted guns, and let's not forget that they are semi-auto shotguns that can empty a 20 round drum in 5 seconds and an added benefit is that we also have the reliability of an AK... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blowstuffup 1 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) Why do people want to skimp out on a US gun? Hell by the time any of you buy the conversion parts to turn a sporterized Russian gun into a pistol griped conversion you will be in the $1000 price range. That's a totally reasonable price to pay for a pistol griped US gun that probably has improvements over the Russian version. What? I paid $600 for my S-12, plus $250 for a conversion kit, and $20 for a V-plug. Not $1000. And I paid more than most for my S-12, there are some here who have less than $700 in their converted guns, and let's not forget that they are semi-auto shotguns that can empty a 20 round drum in 5 seconds and an added benefit is that we also have the reliability of an AK... Agreed. I bought my saiga for 600+tax in Jan 2011 locally and I could've got one at that time for 500 online plus shipping and ffl fee. My conversion parts ran 90+shipping. Where do you get $1000 from. That's ridiculous. Edited April 20, 2011 by blowstuffup Quote Link to post Share on other sites
setlab 11 Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Why do people want to skimp out on a US gun? Hell by the time any of you buy the conversion parts to turn a sporterized Russian gun into a pistol griped conversion you will be in the $1000 price range. That's a totally reasonable price to pay for a pistol griped US gun that probably has improvements over the Russian version. What? I paid $600 for my S-12, plus $250 for a conversion kit, and $20 for a V-plug. Not $1000. And I paid more than most for my S-12, there are some here who have less than $700 in their converted guns, and let's not forget that they are semi-auto shotguns that can empty a 20 round drum in 5 seconds and an added benefit is that we also have the reliability of an AK... $600+$250+$20=$870 pretty close to $1000, average price for an s12 now days is in the $700 range too. With that $1000+ price tag you will get a 100% US made gun with better machining quality, 922r doesn't apply to it, and worse case scenario you will actually have access to spare parts if something does fuck up on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dobravery 49 Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Is it too far a stretch to build a S-12 on existing US made AK receivers, pistons, fcg, with modified US shotgun barrels? I guess the primary new parts would be a US made front trunnion, US made bolt, and front gas block. I don't own and S-12, so maybe I'm just way off, but I wouldn't look at this like building a gun from scratch. A better approach might be producing parts that allow a 12 gauge kit build when combined with existing AK parts. I think that would also be a better option for a smaller builder/manufacturer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Obi_wang 1 Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 I would suggest someone with cnc equipment experiment with giving the parts to build one from an ak parts kit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 Why do people want to skimp out on a US gun? Hell by the time any of you buy the conversion parts to turn a sporterized Russian gun into a pistol griped conversion you will be in the $1000 price range. That's a totally reasonable price to pay for a pistol griped US gun that probably has improvements over the Russian version. What? I paid $600 for my S-12, plus $250 for a conversion kit, and $20 for a V-plug. Not $1000. And I paid more than most for my S-12, there are some here who have less than $700 in their converted guns, and let's not forget that they are semi-auto shotguns that can empty a 20 round drum in 5 seconds and an added benefit is that we also have the reliability of an AK... $600+$250+$20=$870 pretty close to $1000, average price for an s12 now days is in the $700 range too. With that $1000+ price tag you will get a 100% US made gun with better machining quality, 922r doesn't apply to it, and worse case scenario you will actually have access to spare parts if something does fuck up on it. Well, close is a vague statement. Like I said, there are people on this site (quite a few actually) that have less than $700 in their CONVERTED guns. S-12s are selling for that UN-CONVERTED now!!! It all depends on when you step on the boat... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
purduepurdy 18 Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 You guys seen this from SRM. Weird semi auto with 16, 12, or 8 round capacity. $2400! though. Kind of an original design. Used removable tube like magazines. Pricey though. http://www.srmarms.com/documents/SRM_1216.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scarbrough68289 76 Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxPxBr2QrtE&feature=player_embedded Just saw this on FACEBOOK. Pretty nifty. SRM 1216 SHOTGUN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AtlSaiga 25 Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 SRM - I like it. its basically like the keltecs RFB, but with more tubes. I think that rotating a cylinder like that is easier/faster than trying to hit that little selector switch with your thumb or whatever on the keltec. whats interesting is that from the vid, it looks like you need a rifle bullet for take down. well if you're a shotgunner, you're not gonna have rifle bullets. my questions is, why are so many people trying to use tubes for large capacity shotguns? I mean, I think its pretty well established that box magazines are the best way to carry and load ammunition into a firearm right? Is it really so hard to design a magazine versus some cockamamie Rube Goldberg action? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I would like to see side by side SRM what ever and my Saiga 12 let's say 20 targets. I'm sure the tube feeders will figure out one day that the box magaxine is way better. I think that Turkish AR shotgun is another semi automatic shotgun in different clothing. I agree a US company should start making the Saiga here and do a higher quality job. People are paying 3500 bucks for "race Saiga shotguns" I have a grand in my S-12 for this season and I did all the work myself. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK-47 33 Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 You know, if the Saiga12 get's banned, the Romanians could pick up the torch. They have been wisely exploting the US market with WASR's for quite some time, the PAR pump rifles were a clever attempt to sell AK's through the AWB, and now the Draco pistols are another homerun. I would not be suprised if they stepped up to make an AK based shotgun if the Saiga shotguns get banned specifically. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silverphoenix 11 Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 Over $500 and I'm pretty sure that company would go out of business. People mainly buy saigas of any sort because they are cheap and reliable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 Over $500 and I'm pretty sure that company would go out of business. People mainly buy saigas of any sort because they are cheap and reliable. ...and I bought one of Tony's for $1300. Go figure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silverphoenix 11 Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) Most people like myself do the work themselves. If I'm spending over a grand on a gun, it would not be on a saiga. Most people feel the same way as myself, but not everyone. Most of us are on fixed incomes and limited budgets and want to buy a cheap saiga to fix up ourselves Edited June 12, 2011 by silverphoenix 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dowork1021 64 Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 If you own a Saiga and converted with your own hands and you still have $1000 in it, you have one top of the line Saiga 12. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Over $500 and I'm pretty sure that company would go out of business. People mainly buy saigas of any sort because they are cheap and reliable. ...and I bought one of Tony's for $1300. Go figure. Money spent with Tony is money well spent........... It's just one of those things you can't go wrong with !! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lvjeffro 30 Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) I have right around 1700.00 into my S-12, and that is only parts and the gun, no labor... Did the converting myself...Holy moses ETA: So, if some US company made a high quality Saiga or AR style semi auto, mag fed shotgun, I believe they would sell well... Edited June 15, 2011 by lvjeffro Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 just make a standard copy with similar metal and sell it for 400 bucks. you'd make a killing since it cost you maybe 100 bucks to make the sucker if you were all tooled up. if you try to sell an american made copy for 1K, you will loose your ass group industries style. don't get all cnc fancy with your new shotguns or they will suck. the s12 is meant to be sloppy, it's a freaking shotgun! consistency and quality. do your R&D before you crank out a bunch of crap like kimber is doing right now. if you do it right, you could start an amazing company. good luck! just my two cents. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Over $500 and I'm pretty sure that company would go out of business. People mainly buy saigas of any sort because they are cheap and reliable. ...and I bought one of Tony's for $1300. Go figure. wow, you got a steal of a deal. im sure they are talking about base rifles. if you really want to loose your ass, just try to compete with the customizers out there like tromix or tac47. it would be a stupid venture. just make the base rifle and let the real gunsmiths take care of the modifications. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Over $500 and I'm pretty sure that company would go out of business. People mainly buy saigas of any sort because they are cheap and reliable. Well, the cheapest one we sell is about $1000 and we have a waiting list. In fact, most of them are shorties and nearly double that price, actually. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 just make a standard copy with similar metal and sell it for 400 bucks. you'd make a killing since it cost you maybe 100 bucks to make the sucker if you were all tooled up. Sorry, but this is not even close. Do you really think that a smaller company can make a gun cheaper than Izhmash? Paying US wages? In small batches? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HappYBallZ 31 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Why do people want to skimp out on a US gun? Hell by the time any of you buy the conversion parts to turn a sporterized Russian gun into a pistol griped conversion you will be in the $1000 price range. That's a totally reasonable price to pay for a pistol griped US gun that probably has improvements over the Russian version. What? I paid $600 for my S-12, plus $250 for a conversion kit, and $20 for a V-plug. Not $1000. And I paid more than most for my S-12, there are some here who have less than $700 in their converted guns, and let's not forget that they are semi-auto shotguns that can empty a 20 round drum in 5 seconds and an added benefit is that we also have the reliability of an AK... $600+$250+$20=$870 pretty close to $1000, average price for an s12 now days is in the $700 range too. With that $1000+ price tag you will get a 100% US made gun with better machining quality, 922r doesn't apply to it, and worse case scenario you will actually have access to spare parts if something does fuck up on it. With the prices so over-infalted now because of scarcity and uncertain future, a US alternative would be nice.(Would be awesome if everything is interchangeable. However, I would not go to say that even a big shop can compete with a factory... and just because it is made in here I will not go no where near to say it would be better; there is plenty of garbage US made parts for AKs and guns and they were all made here. Izmash uses some sophisticated equipment, just because they make crude stuff at a fast pace does not mean they could not make a super-model nice equivalent of a weapon but at a much higher price. I see many hardships for anyone making this a quality weapon for under 1k in the USA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 dont wait demonstrate! all we have to do to stop this nonsense is pressure our "representatives" into repealing the 68 gca. bam BOOM!!!! As far as everything else, srm is cool, akdal is ugly, keltec is gonna blow your fingers off. soneone just needs to make a 12 ga piston "ar10" upper receiver assy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62 Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Well, the cheapest one we sell is about $1000 and we have a waiting list. In fact, most of them are shorties and nearly double that price, actually. Yeah, I paid >2100$. Looks and feels nice, someday I'll get my form 4 back... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
armory 142 Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 If the Montana Freedom Firearms Act withstands the test of the courts, I envision a "Montana Only" 12 gauge AK-variant of some sort being produced. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Where is the option to vote NO? I don't want another American made shotgun. Already have one. Already have a Saiga. Already have an Italian one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 OK so this is probably going to come across as trolling, and I certainly wouldn't do any business with them, but it looks like one company is claiming to do that. They used to be a member here until they caused massive problems with ripping people off. google "origin shotgun" for more details and likely inflated claims. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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